Eric Stromquist

ControlTalk Now The Smart Buildings Podcast Episode 316

Episode 316 of ControlTalk NOW The Smart Buildings Podcast — Features CityZenith’s CEO, Michael Jansen. 2019 EASYIO World Conference Begins!

ControlTalk Now The Smart Buildings Podcast Episode 315

Episode 315 of ControlTalk NOW The Smart Buildings Podcast features our video interview with Realcomm’s Founder and CEO, Jim Young. As you will soon see, a paradigm shift is underway in Smart Connected Building Space.  ControlTrends looks forward to coverage of two important industry events taking place in the next few days: 2019 Haystack Connect in San Diego, and EasyIO’s 2019 World Conference, in Amsterdam. Young Gun champions, Aaron Gorka and Brent Burrows lead on with Next Generation Innovation Episode 10, and much more News of the Wee

ControlTalk Now The Smart Buildings Podcast Episode 314

Ken and I spent last week at Controls Con in Detroit. Controls Con, hosted by Scott Cochrane and the team at Cochrane Supply is a gathering of the top players in HVAC and Smart Building Controls.

On this episode of ControlTalk Now we discuss what we learned and ho wit can benefit the HVAC and Smart Buildings Controls integrator. WE also discuss how IT and oT are intersecting in Smart Buildings. So much to cover and so little time, but we do our best to give you the things you need to know and the HVAC and Controls news of the week.

ControlTalk Now The Smart Buildings Podcast Episode 313

On Episode 313 of Controltalk Now the HVAC and Smart Building Controls Podcast we explore your most important asset: Your Network. Most of us in HVAC and Smart Buildings are well versed in HVAC and Smart Building Controls Networks. How many of us have studied or understand our people and social networks? More than ever it is more about who you know versus what you know. So how do you maximize your people networks? As a teacher of mine once said, ” Effort plus Correct Theory equals Profound Results. Ken Sinclair, owner-editor of, helps us understand three theories to maximize our people networks: 1. separate and define your networks as different creative communities 2. Connect these different creative communities into strategic alliances 3. turn these communities into communities of practice. To get the show notes from this insightful interview go to Get more HVAC and Control News you can use on the rest of this episode of ControlTalk Now the HVAC and Smart Buildings Podcast

ControlTalk Now The Smart Buildings Podcast Epiosde​ 312

How Haystack Tagging will Change Smart Building Controls Forever

Episode 312 ControlTalk Now the HVAC and Smart Buildings Podcast gives you the HVAC and Smart Building Control News of the Week for the week ending April 21, 2019.

Our guests this week are two of the smartest people in Smart Building Controls, Lynxspring’s Marc Petock, and Sky Foundry’s John Petze. Marc and John are two of the driving forces behind one of the most exciting developments in HVAC and Smart Building Controls, Project Haystack.

Project Haystack at its core is a tagging convention that allows data to be extracted and used in the most cost-effective way possible. THis is huge!!!

In this episode of ControlTalk Now The HVAC and Smart Buildings Podcast, John and Marc do a deep dive into Project Haystack

Here is what to listen for:

  • What Haystack Tagging is and why it is such a game changer
  • How Haystack tags work
  • How Project Haystack can help you differentiate your HVAC and Smart buildings control business
  • How to get started with Haystack tags right now
  • How you can get involved in the Haystack Community 

Be sure to get more HVAC and Smart Building Control News you can use at


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See you next week on ControlTalk Now The HVAC and Smart Buildings Podcast

ControlTalk Now The Smart Buildings Podcast Episode 311

With your co host and mine, the man, the myth, the legend, the one and only Kenny Smyers away on a special assignment, I am left to my own devices and will do the best I can to give you HVAC and Smart Building Control News You can use.On Episode 311 of Controltalk Now The HVAC and Smart Buildings Control Video Cast and Podcast we take a deep look at what Siemens is doing with their Smart Building Controls Product Portfolio. In addition to tweaking their already formidable Talon line of DDC controls, Siemens is rounding out their Smart Building Controls offering with lighting controls, analytics, and other key acquisitions that will allow their customer’s seamless synergies and better building experience. To help us understand all these changes we talk with Siemens Sr. Sales Manager, Josh Felperin. Josh is a friend of the show and a great guest. I think you are going to be impressed with what he has to say. Our next guest is Bill Spohn. Bill is the President and CEO of TRuTech Tools and the host of the Building HVAC Science and RESTalk Podcasts. As you will hear, Bill is a fascinating guest and offers great wisdom on HVAC. Measurement practices. Bill is a skilled podcaster and shares some of his best practices. The Building Science HVAC Podcast is worth checking out, so please do so.

Controltalk Now The Smart Buildings Podcast Epiosde​ 310

What makes Distech such a great building automation controls choice.

Who is one of the dynamic and engaging leaders in the HVAC and BAS Industry? Meet Martin Villeneuve, SVP Distributed Building Technologies, Acuity Brands and President, Distech Controls

Welcome to Episode 310 of ControlTalk NOW — Your Smart Buildings VideoCast and PodCast for week ending April 7th featuring Martin Villeneuve, the man behind Distech Controls’ continued growth and pace-setting innovation. Register today for the 2019 Controls-Con2019 Haystack Connect, and the EasyIO World Conference are right around the calendar corner! Check out Belimo and Siemens upcoming Webinars; Optigo releases New Site Manager; Penn’s two products that will make you money; and New Generation Innovation presents their latest PodCast from Ixtapa, Mexico.

ControlTalk Now The Smart Buildings Podcast : Episode 309

This week’s ControlTalk NOW features Ken Sinclair, who takes us on a deep dive through the murky waters of Cybersecurity.  The April edition of Automated Buildings is a must read — as leading industry experts weigh in with critical insights and comprehensive advice on how to eliminate as many of your vulnerabilities as possible. There is a great framework from NIST.

Our AI transcriber is not smarter than a six year old, so I apologize in advance for any typos and miss spelled words. 

The following is a presentation and the ControlTrends, Podcasting Network,you’re listening to ControlTalk Now. The HVAC and Smart Building Controls , podcast., with the man the myth, the legend Ken Smyres and Eric Stromquist. ControlTalk Now about weekly podcast with HVAC,building automation and Smart Building Control News you can use. Now here’s Eric

Eric Stromquist: Alrighty. All right man. So cool. What Kenny man, big week. I know you stay busy. I stay busy, man. Roscoe went on in the business world. I think anybody in our industry knows to just kind of like a business has just fallen out of the sky man. It’s like how many buckets can you pick up? You know, everybody’s scrambling to get the job done and keep up with it. It’s keeping us busy. It’s a good thing, you know, probably not last forever, but hey, while it’s happening, let’s enjoy it. Right. I think

Ken Smyers: totally right. I think we’ve come to a, an intersection where the, the, some of the hard work, the pioneer work, the, the, the planting of the seeds so to speak. And then the technology is finally coming into, uh, you know, the, the various modular levels that are affordable. They’re understandable. And they’re, you know, the ease of installation. And so I think it’s a good time, uh, economically too. There’s money is available. I know when you talked primarily about HVAC and building automation, you go into certain markets like the mush market, Hospitals, universities, schools, hospitals, and commercial real estate, you know, and the GSA. But uh, you know, the truth of the matter is, is that we’ve done a lot of due diligence on this and we’ve proven without question that if you take steps, you know, you fix your worst problem first with the technology. And we’ve had some amazing products come to being easy. Io came up with the, uh, the FG 32, I think that was one of the mainstays. Then you had to Honeywell, LCB has connect. Then you had the Johnson controls Verasus uh, you know, and you got links spring coming out with the five 34. You have the edge tend to device series coming out from Tridion on. And so all the major manufacturers and vendors out there to provide solutions have taken some of the major product platform and scaled it down so that it can meet the markets that need it the worst. And that’s those 50,000 square feet and below. And so, uh, as you know, we keep track of doe and they tell us that there’s a, there’s about 75% the 80% of the buildings after this still need some love and care and some building automation.

Eric Stromquist: So I think what’s going to happen with that, and again, at ControlTalk Now, we try to give you control news you can use. So I think if you’re planning your strategy now, it’s like when the business is falling out of the sky, your strategy nowadays, he’d be just, how can we, how can we capture that business and take it and make money on it? But you will remember this conversation where the man, the myth, the legend told you that 70% of those smaller buildings don’t have anything in someone. The economy dries up. You can put together a strategy and go after that. And of course we’ve got so many great products, companies are coming out with products to address that segment of the market or anything for viruses. Kenny talked about the Honeywell LCBS, well you look at EASY IO, it’s great for that race to the small space. and LYNXSpring has a great offering.

Ken Smyers: Optergey and LoyTech. I mean we’re just, we’re seeing the, that we’re seeing a lot more. I decided I was going to do, hey Eric, one more time. Could you do that thing you did there about the, you were catching things falling from the sky because you reminded me of somebody. You mind me a Julio Jones. There you go.

Eric Stromquist: Oops. Drop it. Manna from heaven baby. Yeah, Manna from for sure. Well listen man, we got a great show this week. Let’s go ahead and get our first guest on and then we’ll, we’ll take care of some business after we getting a motto. How about introducing him? Kenny sounds great. Is the first of the month and you know what that means.

Ken Smyers: I sure do. It it that Ken Sinclair from automated buildings have come up with another fabulous addition. Uh, we’re going to be bringing Ken Sinclair, owner, editor of automated, On to the show. Welcome to the show Ken and tell us about your April edition. Welcome, Ken.

Ken Sinclair: Thank you very much. Really pleased to be on a controlled trends. Uh, yeah, our, uh, our April fool’s issue is going to come online April 1st, but we all got fooled. And the fact that, uh, I wrote an article for connected contractor that basically linked to the bulk of the articles and uh, it was supposed to go out on Thursday and surprise. It came out on Wednesday. So I’d left us scrambling to, to make sure that all the links were, uh, as, as need as they could be. So we had a release then and a, we’re in a situation that we can kind of release that side of it. And I gave you a little piece of artwork and a, an actual article that you can link to that it’ll take you to most of the cyber securities. So where this all came from, his Anto, uh, came to me and he had done quite a successful, uh, cybersecurity a session at Ahr Atlanta. Uh, he asked me what he should do and I said, it’s way too late. Don’t even try and do it. But he ignored me and, uh, and uh, cobbled it together. Uh, it ended up being at seven o’clock in the morning, uh, which actually turned out to be a blessing because everybody who came to the cybersecurity session actually made it. Anybody who waited to come on the bus was stuck on the freeways and mix ms most of our other sessions. So it worked out really well. Anyway, from that, uh, that was sort of the first gathering of a lot of cybersecurity folks and he suggested that we do an issue and we chose April as a month to do that issue. And, uh, I’m, I’m extremely pleased. Uh, uh, it, it makes you realize the giants that we actually work with in the industry. And, uh, if you just flip through their articles, I got to admit, I just learned a whole bunch about the cyber security. I’ve always been kind of concerned about it, that cybersecurity has the potential of a mobilizing us and uh, I, I feel better about that now. They all seem amazingly enough, although there’s five, six, seven articles, uh, all coming at it from different directions, they actually mostly all embraced nurses. Uh, a framework which is great. So we have some commonality. Uh, I just a whole lot of stuff and it’s, I think it’s going to be a great resource for our industry and uh, I think also it’s going to be useful for other industries and it will, uh, it kind of gets our message out, uh, to, to cybersecurity is as general, it maybe identifies us more as it thinking people and helps with that transition. We all have to make really nice job on in Canada. I think this is that this is the edition that you want to print out and save because I think this is going to be something you can use for sometime to come. But anyway, Kenny, I’m sorry for interrupting there.

Ken Sinclair: No, that was great. Wedge in on that is the, uh, mark made that comment. He said, this is looking good. We should make this into any magazine and a really the issue, the way we index everything and automated buildings is we never throw anything away. We have our very first issue is still online from 20 years ago, so this issue is Sabre. We’ll say cyber security issue will be online for now for for as long as I I chug on. I’m going to talk a little bit about that later in the show. Well, hang on real quick and I guess it one more thing is we’ve got an April fools coming up. Can I got an April fool’s joke? You should play on the community, so on April 1st you should publish that, that republish, that one from 20 years ago just for the, and just see how many people pick up on it. Then you can put that other one back home. Believe it or not, most of the, most of the words are bang on. We haven’t really achieved much. We’ve been talking about a lot of this stuff for a long time. It’s pretty, it’s actually pretty bad actually. Some of it is. I’ve actually been doing that in a lot of my writings. I’ve been taking something from 2015 years ago and it reads great. Well, you know, can I think that shows that you’re a precocious back 20 years ago, I think you were when it was first minds in the business, they’re really truly took uh, you know, began to document and archive what is likely to come and why and why it’s necessary, why you gave us good foundation and you know, you say you gave us where we’re at now, where we’re going, where we’re going to be. But um, you know, the, the way you started off the April edition was you said that, um, I’ve avoided discussion and the past cybersecurity understanding, highlighting to potential security and privacy concerns can paralyze us for 20 years. We have operated in the wild west manner. And I think that that’s, that’s exactly right. And I think within this last two years, maybe a year for sure, the compression of seriousness that regard now the adoption, everybody knows their response. Where is a co Co effort, you know, we need to cooperate and collaborate to get things done quickly with cybersecurity. But I mean, just kind of in your mind when you think back, like, uh, was back that for instance, we really didn’t have that threat. So I mean, it could have been the wild west and it could be, you know, just, you know, we were naive, but again, the world was different then and I think some of our protocols and stuff. So what’s your thoughts on, you know, did you ever have an idea that somebody would penetrate your back net network 20 years ago? Yeah, I think you’ll, we were safer back in those days, in the 20 years ago because I think the problem came is when we, uh, started to depend heavily on the Internet and we started to develop a web controllers and all of our devices started to have IP addresses. So what happened is we kind of walked across the floor and we became it people, but not really, uh, identifying ourself in educating herself as it people. When you talk to somebody like Scott Cochrane, he understands that real clear and he’s all of his new folks. He’s hiring are coming from an it orientation. And I think that’s kind of where we’re at. I think that’s how we kind of created a mess by just, we took the quickest way and I think it was necessary because we needed to prove to our industry that this, it was serious stuff.

Ken Smyers: Even doing it badly. Uh, it was amazing what we could do. So now I think we used to have to back up a little bit and clean it up, but my comment was is we have really achieved a lot and we, there’s holes systems. Uh, you were talking earlier and in a boat, uh, easy ios session in Amsterdam and easy. I do. I always, one of the companies that was quick to basically move into an Iot, uh, environment and actually almost leave our, uh, you know, so I would call it, flag them as one of the leaders in this. But now we have to kind of go back and take a look of what iot rules are doing. How are we going to make all of this stuff safe in that I have a tremendous concern that if we make too many fences, we’re going to be the people behind the fences. That’s gets too complicated. And uh, so we have to kind of keep that Claire Claire and I was just extremely pleased with all these talented, uh, cyber security experts that wrote for us. Uh, it, it kind of reads like the WHO’s who of a cyber security for our industry and uh, that they all are focused on the Nis, uh, model of cybersecurity and uh, and basically identifying the, the five components of that. And so that’s, that’s just a great feeling a whole lot better. Uh, my concern, my concern got answered in the, uh, in the, uh, article and actually then at the end of it I just added some stuff just a few minutes ago. It’s the trouble with my articles. You think you’re finished reading them and then they add another paragraph and added the a a paragraph about the charter trust that Siemens is working for with, and they’re there, the Europeans are, are, are sort of way ahead of us, although I’m very concerned that they, they could fence themselves in as they, as you start to, as you start to protect our human rights and protect, uh, our products. Every time you put protection around something, it makes it less flexible and less usable. So they’re two opposing forces that we have to kind of deal with. Give me an example of being fenced and cause you use that term, but can you give me a for example, um, for example at which, oh, I see. Um, well just at the same, the thing is so secure. Like the simplest thing is that you have to sign on to everything. And if, uh, if I had to sign on to comfy every time I wanted to use it, that would make it useless. And if I had to, if I had to, every time I went into a building, if I have to give permission so they can use my Bluetooth beacon, mobilizes us idea of the technology, gets it, gets stopped with the so much friction that it would be, you wouldn’t want to use it anymore. That’s right. And I think there’s that potential exists. So I think we have to always be, you know, I am, but what is the reality of it? I have no problem with sort of limiting the amount of information that can be taken off of, uh, an iPhone or Dapa off a mobile phone. But to the proper, the proper manner would be is that it would stop you at the door and say that, you know, it’s the whole thing with every website now that’s warning you that it’s using cookies and you can’t, you can’t move on the website unless you click on it that you accepted to use cookies. So it’s like, do I really need that message? Change your password every time you log on and you can’t keep up with your passwords. I’m flock out of so many of my sites for that very reason that I can’t remember the password because it made me change it. And then I do three times and then it goes through this massive reset and then you gotta come up with another password and then I just go, okay, I’m not going to be on Facebook anymore. Yeah. Well actually I am running that same thing. Yeah. The thing I’ve done, I just given up remembering my passwords and I actually, every time I sign on I have it send me a new password. Wow. It’s just simpler. And actually for some of it, maybe they’ve achieved their goal cause maybe that’s the most useful. Uh, you know, did you change your password? I had to get it on cause I couldn’t remember what it was. Well, you know, they’re going to fix it that one day.

Ken Smyers: I think, uh, you know it. Then you have that big trust. You’ve got different people like Google and Microsoft and they’ll remember all your passwords for you and then they get to hear that and they get caught. You go to and Ken, I, I thought he came up with another one. I wanted to, I want to make this a, this might be the same when we write something about it. You said that we all take, we all have taken the path of least it resistance. I think that’s exactly right. I mean, we all did just what you had to do. I remember the early days we just added for, we asked for two ports. You get me on the network and you worry about it and if I create a problem for you, I didn’t mean it. Whatever. So, um, yeah, I mean you said too that the WHO’s who of of cybersecurity from our building automation and HVAC industry. You’re absolutely right. I go through this, the names here and I missed Fred Gore you the first time because I thought initially and he’s, he’s like right up at the top that, do you have a Anto? You got James Lee, you have Fred Gordy, you have Marc Petock, Ping , and you have Teresa Sullivan. You have just, just how many Kevin Smith’s different CTO from treatment. How did you get all these people involved so quickly that you could put this together in a monthly addition? I mean, it’s, this is a lot of network.

Ken Sinclair: Well, I got to, uh, Anto helped a lot, but as I mentioned that a lot of it, a springboard off of the, uh, cybersecurity session in Atlanta. And actually that whole session is on the new deal site, actually is as much information as there is on the surface. There’s, there’s two documents. There’s, uh, a report I wrote to try and put pictures and English subtitles to all of their complex articles and then linked to their articles, sort of give you some, uh, so you can get up merge and get up to ramp speed trying to get your mind around all of this. And then secondly, uh, Anto and I did a discussion, just a, it’s like an interview, but we did it in the form of an article and we basically talk and link to each one of their things and sort of talk about the evolution. Uh, and of course this’ll, this’ll also get fed back on the new deal, uh, website that, uh, uh, okay. Anto maintains as well. Uh, symmetrics has been a real supporter of this. Uh, and Oh, the other one you missed. Uh, the other fame to more famous people are, uh, James Butler basically talks about the new, a BACnet, BACnet secure, I believe it’s called, and an Ping of Optigo Hook, Ping Yell. And then I miss Deb Noller and, um, Jim Butler, Simon. But I just definitely, but it’s an incredible lineup. You’re quite right. I, I too was impressed and a, I think what happened is that is once, once they found out that somebody was writing, uh, was easy, when I reached out to them and told them this was our cyber security issue and we have some pretty good traction, then I think they, uh, they wanted to be part of it. They wanted it to be identified as a part of the solution. But the amount of information there is just phenomenal cause you, you click on any one of those, uh, industry experts, you get down to their site and then they give you their links and then their links give you more links. So from, from this, uh, I’m really proud that from this one page or this interview, you can, you can probably even go down the rabbit hole. Yeah, you could read for two weeks. But the good news is, is when you start reading it, there starts to be some common themes and some common cautions. And, uh, it’s not like everybody’s saying, uh, you know, do it my way. And that’s, that’s what the holistic cybersecurity is, is that we’ve got to do this as a group. We’ve got to do this as a, uh, a community of practice. And of course, that was our last thrust and it fits really well into this. And in fact, at the end of our, of the article, we actually identify a whole bunch of communities of practice that are, uh, that are, are, uh, are accurate, are evolving for cyber security. Right? Right, right. No, I like that. Conceptr, but that was it. Was that a Therse Sullivan a concept? Yeah, actually that Atlanta was pretty significant for us. We’re saying, we’re still talking about it. Uh, um, we did the, uh, it was called the evolution of a automation from ether net to emotion, our session. And we basically went back and we talked about, you know, the overview that we had prepared. And actually this is going to be part of my keynote at control con is that, so I’ve been 50 years in the industry, uh, 20 years of that is automated building. And, uh, so what, what does the old guys see? Well, what the old guys sees is that we went through a whole lot of technologies on our way from pneumatics to AI, but, uh, the only constant is the people. I mean, there’s pets. He’s there in the beginning and he’s still there in the end. Leaves there in the beginning, uh, the beginning of backnet them and James Lee in San Francisco and the first backnet integration with train that gotta be 30 years ago or something like that.

Ken Smyers: Uh, all of this stuff is, has radically changed, but these people are still there and the people and their communities of practice are, well, it’s kind of keeps us moving forward. So I’m kind of intrigued by that. And of course, uh, the, the events that are coming up, we’re all kind of part of and they become our community of practice events. And uh, certainly that’s a ControlsCon is certainly one of those events. The next one that I actually used as an example in that article is aHaystack Connect because HaystackConnect grew. You guys were there in the beginning, you saw how it grew and you saw where it’s grown to today. And it is certainly a community of practice when you actually attach yourself to these communities of practice. There’s so much information and so much resource because there’s very talented people and we’re all working on a common theme. And the other thing that comes is communities of practice beget communities of practice because once you start working with this, we’ve got an absolutely new field. Um, maybe like a camera AI or something like that that we’re moving into. We don’t really know anything about it. The fastest way we can get from zero to, uh, highway speed is how along the ramp is basically catch on to a community of practice and join them and basically look for a while, find out what the heck they’re talking about. And then eventually we’ll get up to merge speed and we can actually drive along highway with them. Yeah, it makes so much sense. Can I’ll begin by just going to go it alone. And this sort of gets back to a concept that a, either you or Kenny coined about the Co- competition,

Speaker 5: whatever it is, co option. All good, Eric. I’m just don’t know which analogy which one they’ll get doing the random, in other words, we’ve always said that it’s for our community and for, for the building automation world. HVAC I’m ever you, Eric and I were down with Marc Petock.. We said, where do we go? What’s, what’s our, what’s our course of action? And Fred Gordy came out of, uh, you know, he was the champion and he was working with Billy Rios remember. Uh, yeah. And then next thing, you know, uh, it just started rolling. This big wheel started taking roll. And now looking at this litany, this, this faculty, you know, again, Deb Noller, Jim Butler, uh, ping a poke, Ping Yow, uh, Mark Petock, Kevin T. Smith, Fred Gordy, Anto, but Yardo Vr, Joel and James Lee. I mean, now we’ve got a faculty and then use that with nest. And we’ve got real great direction that we’ve gone from having little, uh, you know, kind of guidance. And what do we tell people? Remember that that checklist we hung up on the refrigerator with Fred Gordy. We put his, uh, 10 best things to start a cybersecurity if I get an internal champion, et Cetera, et cetera. But then, um, so it’s really good to see that what you said with the ramp to the highway. In other words, we got people onto that. They can finally get a, onto a ramp and started learning, like you saying, and put, put things into context, you know, deciphered, filtered for themselves and their organizations or whomever their businesses. And then, uh, you know, keep at it to the point where you could get onto the ramp way in, merge onto the highway and be comfortable and be professionally competent in cybersecurity. I think it’s a great analogy and I think he had a lot to do with Ken. actually Scott Cochrane and I had been fooling around with it as well. And uh, uh, my comment to him as I was appreciating what Scott was doing for me cause he was, he’s, he’s pushing me along the, uh, along the merge ramp and uh, he wants me to get up to speed before I hit this uh, conference because, so I don’t become roadkill. But they, then they, then they were very polite. They re they redefined me as the road warrior.

Eric Stromquist: I like it. What, do you guys ever hear of a book called think and grow rich by Napoleon Hill? Yes. Okay. So you know what it reminds me of Ken, and I’m rereading the book is as you know, cause he interviewed Andrew Carnegie and all these people, the successful traits of people that are successful in the top in their field. And one commonality they had as they all had a mastermind group of likeminded people that weren’t what they would bounce ideas off of each other. And you know, part of Carnegie’s thing was it no mind, no matter how good it is, can capture and understand fully. So, you know, it’s almost like these centers of practice are also run me a lot of Carnegie’s mastermind groups.

Ken Sinclair: Yup. Yeah, I think so. Very, very much so. Uh, I mean it’s a way we organize their life. It’s kind of funny that, uh, when, uh, teres definitely I would have to credit her to, to basically putting the words around the community of practice. And then she went digging back into the history of how that kind of came to a play and then she put it in one of her articles and then I’ve rewritten a whole bunch of other stuff on, on that. And you’re quite right, it, those come right from the, uh, from motivation. And, uh, but it’s just a quick way and it’s certainly, I mean, if you want to learn about anything, if you want to learn about video equipment, I’m sure you belong to sub communities of practice for video equipment. I mean it’s, and especially with the Internet, it’s just so, uh, probably burnt and, uh, everywhere so we can actually get this information. The other thing we’ve identified a is in talking to my young guns, my young editors is we, you know, he floated out the question is how did you get so smart? And they all came from various backgrounds. Uh, but how they got smart was they basically educated themselves and they learned what they needed to learn. And that’s really the model that our whole industry is evolving on is, uh, it’s, it’s just so broad that, uh, nobody can tell you what you need to know. You just have to pick a, a threat of it on real quick with that because you know, I think, you know, you, you and I both had this concept of, you know, take a millennial to lunch or whatever. And you know, I’ve got two mentors, one them moves in his seventies and one of them who’s in his late twenties and you know, we’ve heard him manufacturing, I’m throwing this out primarily for our manufacturers who are trying to train to get traction with people with their products. But you know, we’ve heard just in time manufacturing, right where you just build it at the last second, but with this cat’s about, and what the millennials are about, it’s called just in time learning. In other words, if you give them a manual, they’re not going to start at chapter one and go all the way through. They’re going to hop in where they want to hop in and then they’ll go around it however they do it. So, and I think in a way that’s a lot better, uh, I think they can get up to speed a lot faster and they’re willing to make mistakes along the way. But for guys like me and you and Kenny is like, no, you start on page one and well, you know what the Eric, your, your your point. It’s so true. Uh, in other words, we’re seeing this, uh, I took a look at some of the new education going on in, in public schools and grade schools, and then we’re not a young students are not learning how to write cursive anymore and how it’s been antiquated and how it’s a, it’s a barrier to learning enhancement learning. But if you talked about the community of practice, can, you know, you had, uh, you had, uh, an initiative back when you were doing your collaboratorium that was kind of, you were creating that, uh, that exact community of, of, uh, you know, practitioners that were the experts. And then, and then to your point, Eric, you’re absolutely right. Just in time learning. In fact, remember Ken, you did the didactic you were talking to, you were the first person that I read the didactic.

Ken Smyers: I said, I just use words. I can’t say. Yeah, yeah. You, so you said that what’s going to happen is we need to put all this stuff into some sort of forum that’s available and it has the archives from a to z and then that anybody that wants to learn really quickly can, can enter any part of that, that 20 year swing that you put onto your website and pull down meaning from it, and then just learn what they need to learn to get by the next thing. And Eric remember, we did a thing with a wearable technologies, how they said it’s the only way they’re going to keep, you know, to produce results in the medical fields and the gas and oil fields. And now we’re gonna see it. You know, building automation is, you’re going to have a home base and the rest is going to be camera and somebody at the site’s going to be to say Turner wrench to the right. Three quarters turn. Good. Stop. Okay. What’s, what’s the pressure reading again? Show me, you know, so that that’s the way the world’s going to work because you just, you won’t be, you won’t have the luxury of time. So it’s more efficient. Right? You won’t have electric, can’t get a semester’s worth learning anymore, you know, so you can’t read the preface and the epilogue. You gotta just get to page 38 were, tells you how, but with a point of dinner is made now knowledge a very democratic in its not for the, the fewest for anybody that wants to learn can learn, which is the really exciting thing about it. And so for our community out there thought cybersecurity was out of your purview,Ken Sinclair, begs to differ with you. Just go to his April edition and you can be a cybersecurity cop, Billy the Kid Rios.

Ken Sinclair: Good stuff. Okay. The other thing I think we have to look at is we have to look at a is definitely a community of practice and a, your company as well, Kenneth and automated buildings is a community of practice. Uh, and it’s interesting that, that you go into these communities of practice and then inside of each community of practice is a unique one such as Haystack Connect is inside of that and inside the haystack is a sand star, uh, community. So all these little communities are the mosaic that, that build us. And if you want to get going fast, you have to just, you have to go to the community that you need, you need to interface with to do whatever it is you want. Once you get to that community because they’re all online. The other thing you didn’t mention about how the young folks learn is that we, uh, they can just send out a blog message and they just ask. They just say, I’m trying to do this. I’ve read, they always have the politeness that they’ve read through everything the community has talked about. And somebody said this to even pick up on a piece of that and said, I need more information about that. Then you’d be unbelievable. The whole community jumps in and helps them. They’re very collaborative. I think we grew up in a time where we, we kind of, we had to do it on our own and we were very proud of that machiavellian

Eric Stromquist: my number, can I, how I’m going to take another step out of it was a competitive advantage to know something somebody else didn’t know that Internet changed that. So the youngsters who are coming along, you know, you know, good blind horse, why hoard information, but back when, back in the day, I mean, if you knew how to calibrate something, somebody else didn’t, that was your differentiator in business. But knowledge now is, uh, I just keep saying democratic. Can we get gimme the vogue vocabulary word for it, Kenny, that, uh, where it’s a ubiquitous or, uh, that was, it’s not for the democracy of, of, of what we’re doing is basically, it’s, it’s,

Ken Sinclair: yeah, it looks I know what you’re saying, Eric. I’ll think of it in a second. But you don’t see, knowledge is no longer elitist, right? Well, you know, you, you and I went to Scotland at one time and that’s where it really hit me the hardest. I mean, uh, the, the way the cat gets out of the bag and the printing press and, and when they said that the one, the rich benefactor for Edinburgh said, I’m going to make everybody learn how to read. And he paid for it and he then suddenly children were learning how to read and write and it went, it went backwards on it. Instead of reading right in the Bible, they became political. They, they came politically unrested but to your point, a printing press changed everything because I had knowledge and, and so I think that was, that was step one. Step two was probably the Internet, right? I mean, wow. That’s, I think that’s the analogy I was trying to make is that the Internet was designed for certain things and all these processional items you work per session. We have no idea what’s going to go. In fact, I was reading an article the other day about apple and some of the other people, uh, they’re thinking they’ve gone to a, met with the president and they’re talking about re organizing the United States, his approach to education because we’re so we’re falling so far behind the world because we’re playing all these education process leads to a dead end. It doesn’t lead to fermenting exciting people. And they want people to, you know, apple, uh, executives were explaining, if you let these kids play with technology and they take a tech technological path that they’re not going to be interested in geography or history, they’re going to be at their aptitude, say, let me play with his stuff and learn how to program. So the whole thing is to how do we get more programmers and how do we get that step, you know, the sciences, the technologies, you know, how do we get people involved in anymore like they did back in the 50s when we’re having this space race. You know, all of a sudden we produced massive amounts of engineers, mathematicians, physic, uh, you know, uh, you know, PhDs in physics. And, and just, you know, because of the educational process drove in that direction and led to outcomes that we’re producing. We’re engineers. So we’re seeing this come up, uh, you know, our whole Orthodox approach towards education is being, is being reevaluated.

Ken Smyers: What about in Canada? Again, Canada, Canada, is it, is educational system really geared up towards the sort of technological revolution? Like, you know, Ken suggestion, we’re not necessarily doing the stakes.

Ken Sinclair: Yeah. Not where, what’s going on in the states, but I’m actually reasonably close to like local school because we’ve got a granddaughter. It’s a great, uh, six and uh, and yeah, they, they use the web a lot. Uh, basically, uh, what’s going on is on the school, there’s a class website and basically what’s going on, who’s doing well, what events are coming up. Uh, that’s all that’s all documented. But to Ken’s remark, I wanted to, wanted to just say that when, when we started in this industry, you guys probably had a better idea than anybody cause your fathers were in the industry. So you followed your father’s in. But for a guy like me, I mean I’m on the farm. Uh, and uh, it’s pretty hard to imagine what I’m going to be when I grow up. And also information is very hard to come by and to try and discover your passion. Uh, it just sorta has to evolve. And you basically, the first job you took had a lot to do with where you ended up working. Uh, now we have the situation that you can spend hours, days, years, uh, surfing the web and you can find something that is incredibly intriguing to you. And then you say, I’d want to be one of those guys. And then you start learning that from the community of practice. So it’s, it’s kind of that, that thing has been completely reversed. If you think about when we came into the market, what are we going to do? Uh, now the kids can, they, they’ve all got a good idea what they want to do because they saw something on a youtube that looked pretty fun. Well said. Well said. So tell us some more by controls. Come for a minute because you’re going to be a keynote speaker up there. Uh, would you be giving it away if you tell us what you’re going to talk about or, or, and if our community have to remind what controls Khan is and why they should go, how by giving the, the sort of the Canadian elevator speech, if you will. Okay. Okay. At Scott, he involved me in this and I, I frankly, I got to go to admit that when he asked me, it was like, you sure you want me? Cause cause it’s a, it’s a systems integrators, uh, uh, meeting is, that is the gist of it. And every time I talked to the systems integrators, they’re doing more than I’m writing about. I, I have this perception that I’m on the leading bleeding edge. And, uh, uh, every time I talked to someone like Jason Hoc, I’ll, uh, uh, yeah, I find out a whole bunch of stuff they’re actually doing that I haven’t even thought of or haven’t wrote about. So, uh, I was, I was wondering what I was doing there to get up to speed. So I think what I’m doing there is to just maybe a, explain the, uh, the perception of time, uh, and just the whole, you know, 50 years in the industry who actually seen an industry go from pneumatics to a AI and just seeing all of the people, uh, part of it, uh, I think the other message is, is that we’re all struggling, uh, great. Now to extend our best by date because the technology’s changing so fast. We become obsolete and moments. And my only the fence for that is to, uh, basically grow younger and I’ve found out how to do that and how to grow younger is basically to look at all of our problems and stuff through the minds of our young mentors and, uh, who have grown up as digital natives. So I think that’s, that’s sort of the gist of the message is too dry and do that. The other one that is, I’m, I’m coming around to is the fact that there are a tremendous amount of women in the wings in our industry who have basically been a personal assistance for powerful people. And they have an amazing amount of information in their minds. Uh, and some of them don’t want to be mainstream, but that doesn’t matter because they can be very useful remote.

Ken Smyers: So my reach out the episode is out, uh, this is a potential for our industry. Probably within your companies, you have exactly the same thing as somebody who’s been quietly sitting over there in the corner and has been, you know, organizing all these products and stuff like that. They have a tremendous amount of information and they can actually be very quickly on leashed in a AI or a machine learning type of environment and they can be, uh, very quickly get us up to speed. So I think we’re all looking for how can we get new people into the industry. So those younger mentors combined with our younger mentors. And uh, and the other comment I always make is anytime I talked to my younger mentors, there are comment back is they say, you should see what these kids are doing. They’re looking at the next generation. And these are kids, I dunno, there, I call them digital natives. I don’t know what, uh, these other ones are like a digital, maybe digital immigrants, let’s call them that. Digital immigrants. They basically come from a world that they don’t know. They don’t know reality. They never, they’ve never experienced reality. They’ve only definitely I to tell you real quick, uh, yesterday I’m driving home from the office, you know, coming home and it’s Friday and Fridays are my favorite day other than Saturday his, but anyhow, the phone rings. It’s my daughter calling from San Diego, I think. So I hit the button, hello? Hello Lo. Nothing’s there. I can hear noise in the background and I’m like, what the heck? You know, so I got a little concerned so I hang up my call her back. And by then she rang regain control of her phone. Her five month old daughter, my granddaughter apparently picked up her phone, not even really picked it up. She said she was like, she was, they hold the phone to her. We do so many of these, uh, you know, whatsapp videos. We get to see credible. And so the technology, I’m like you, I love every day that there’s something new going on because I still can’t, I pinched myself to think of how crazy, you know, this iPhone is and how to talk to Germany and I pay for it. And it sent a video where after you to take, or to shoot it live, it’s just, we got to, you got to do more of it. And, and, but um, you know, five months old tap in the phone because she’s been put it in front of her all the time to show, you know, grand the grandparents in Pittsburgh with what’s going on. So they do a video. So she’s so used to that phone being part of her environment that she’s like in front of a phone and then they, we reversed it so she could see what we look like. You know, we keep saying the same thing to her that she could recognize our voices. So, to your point about the digital native, I mean, we have no idea that somebody, uh, as a, as an infant, you know, learning about technology and playing with technology and not reaching for things that they don’t have to reach for. , people don’t want to get out of their chairs anymore to run over to the thermostat and turn it up or down or turn the fan up to speed or whatever. Or to dim the lights or to close the blinds. I mean, why should they want to just hit their phone and say, you know, boom, up, down, cold or warm or whatever. I mean, and, and to have that mentality when you come into your workplace and to see where we’re, you know, state of affairs. And one more thing can I loved you said about the best buy, best sold by and the shelf life. So where do we sit in the scheme of things? We’re, we’re like the canned goods up on top of it. Shelf, don’t eat, don’t drink this milk. Yeah, I got a kick out of that. Anyhow. Well. Yeah, I titled, I think I’m going to title my, uh, my keynote is the next 50 years. So as you can imagine, that might be a stretch for me. But anyway, back to the other comment about how the, the digital natives or the, uh, the digital immigrants, I think I liked that. I think we should call these the, the next, the next wave. We’ve got the digital natives that are pretty comfortable with all this technology, but the digital immigrants are these kids that are coming up now that have they lived, never lived in a real world. They’ve only lived in the virtual world anyway. When they, they looked at your problem of raising the blind. I mean, the first thing they say, well can’t they just talked to my whatsapp and say, what’s that blind 50%? And it knows by where I am that that happens. You know, like why wouldn’t you just do that over all of this stuff? They don’t, the newer group is not the digital Emeris Ted there digitally and titled Digital Trust Fund Babies. But your point, I mean, the more we learn about it in our, our realm, the other day I had to convert a bunch of Celsius to Fahrenheit and I did the old nine over five and I’m thinking, what am I doing? So I just said, Hey Siri, what’s 50 degrees centigrade? The set points, you know, whatever, boom. I mean it just came right back to me, you know, told me the degree is 120 degrees or whatever it wasn’t and I thought, or 170 whatever. And I’m thinking, why is my brain not letting me access and avail all this technology? Why am I so, you know, determined to do it the hard way. And I think it’s just conditioning. So the two year younger mentorship and having somebody aboard, like you were saying, Eric, you know, it’s just to remind you that you don’t have to do it the old school way, that there’s a option and the option might save you a lot of time about energy that you can get more done, more efficiently. So that’s kind of cool. And then the kids taking a picture of everything, hey, you’ll be writing down a number or something. They saw something you want to buy or something on a thing and, and they look at you and they go click, click. I wouldn’t, why, why would you write that down? Right? Why would you do anything? And of course the other thing is, Oh I actually, I got a good story about that. We were uh, we were lost in the train station, then a Roman, our ride was trying to find us and that’s what he said. You said just hold your phone up and take a picture of where you are and then I’ll know where you are and Oh, you’re on the other side of the term when all he said, as soon as we send them a picture. So basically he’s on whatsapp and we took here’s a picture and then he knew where he worked cause our English or Irish, Italian wasn’t that good. But uh, a picture’s worth a thousand words. You’re on the other side. You’re not, you’re not on the right side. You said, I’m just going to park my car and I’m going to come and get you. Yeah, I probably at that same spot. You are a canon. Not I want to go there. You were carrying stuff the baby buggy and are no cars. Car seat. What all do you have? I saw the picture that I’m glad I didn’t have to do that. Oh Man. I’ll tell you what Ken and almost kill me. What their travel with the small kids and my wife’s brother, uh, had a destination wedding and then on top of that it was black tie. There was an extra suitcase to carry all the, the black ties and do, it was just, it was nuts carrying luggage around. But anyway, I survived. I’m better for it as Nietzsche said. What your wife does doesn’t kill you, will make you better. I can’t. So we get, we’ll see at haystack we will see you. Uh, obviously a Cochran, uh, April issue is out automated You definitely want to check that out. What don’t you got before we hop off here? My friend? Well, I guess we’ll all have to put her Elvis Skosh Shims on and go to real calm and Nashville. Right?

Eric Stromquist: Absolutely. You’re going to be down there for sure. Right?

Ken Sinclair: Yeah. Yeah. I wasn’t going to, but Scotty talked me into it so, oh man, I’ll never forget it. Yeah, I’ll never forget the time. It was so much fun and hopefully you’ll do this with us again was, well I think the last one I saw you, I was a maybe San Antonio, but remember you and me and Theresa and Kenny, we’d always do our day one, day two recap. So cause we can’t you on and being a recap or with this. Sure. That sounds good. Yeah, it looks like a lot of stuff going on there as well. Actually I in my never my never ending article, I also tagged on a uh, their cybersecurity a day before event that’s going on as well. Cause I thought that was a kind of fit in, well with this whole cyber cyber security resource. I’m kind of trying to kind of put this thing is it’s just a link to where everything that’s sort of happening in the industry. And at the bottom of that is I’ve got these three events we’ve just talked about as well. So, Hey, I do, I’m going to say one more thing before I forget. Uh, controlled trans for anybody out in it’s still not, has not yet signed up for controls con 2019 it’s May 2nd May 3rd in Detroit at the motor city casino, we have a 10% discount. If you go on now to the website and you register and you putting controlled trends under the discount code, you get a 10% discount. And also with real calm, I be con 2014, June 11th through the 14th down in Nashville, Tennessee. We also have a Discount 10%. Uh, and, and when you register, you put it in and it gives you, actually, you have to go to our website and get the discount code. So I’m sorry it’s not, it does not Is the ControlTrends discount, but there’s a number, a little code you put in there and it’ll save you 10% so you want to put that plug in there.

Eric Stromquist: Excellent. All right, I can’t send ken Sinclair, Automated check it out Ken. Thanks so much as always man. We can’t wait to see you next month and if you have something in between now and then don’t be a stranger. Okay. Alright, thanks guys. Great stuff from Kensen queers always in. Hey Man. Yeah. We even talk about all those other great articles that are on automated So be sure to go to check out automated the April issue cause there’s a ton of other stuff on there. And Man, speaking of phenomenal stuff, our man Mark Pete Talk, in addition to being the master of ceremonies of the controlled trends towards, in addition to being the guy that broke Cindy Crawford’s heart, New York City back in the day in New York City when we got started in advertising now he and the team at Lynx Spring had been acknowledged by frost and Sullivan. Kenny, I’ve got to get this right so I’m actually going to do, I want to read it. 2019. Global Iot and smart buildings, customer value leadership award. Way To go, Terry Swope. Way To go, Bob [inaudible] way to go. Mark p talk way to go. Everybody at the Lynxspring Group could get group of guys. It’s nice to see that frost and Sullivan is acknowledging them.

Ken Smyers: Congratulations job. It’s, uh, well the, uh, the big phrase to eat, to eat platform provides exceptional service delivery and value enhancements through a well synchronized suite of solutions to ensure timely integration with a smart building infrastructure. And it has earned his stripes and, uh, congratulations to a very successful team with a lot, a lot, a lot of motivation, a lot of passion, a lot of initiatives. So they, they basically took that product platform, uh, from over here, kind of an obscure location to a front, front, front vendor position. And, uh, it’s, people are asking for it now. So, and listen for our young guns, you might not know when we talk about Cindy Crawford and mark in the 80s, there was an error of the supermodel, Cindy Crawford, Linda vaginal, sleazy, Naomi Campbell and all that. And speaking of that, you know, I just got a, there’s a text on the Facebook messenger here from a see Crawford going, how old are married now? Hey, mark, it’s me, Cindy Holler, whatever that means. So mark, you’ll just do what that, what you’ll do with it. So one more thing. I just want to say that, uh, you know, much of the technology is available through the built environment, depends on systems integrator. So link Spring Pa did the channel of approximately 250 systems integrated partners throughout North America and a few select international countries to support the built environment effectively. So again, well done. Well done guys. Well I’m for sure I Kenny, what’s, what’s gonna be our deep dive posts of the weakness acres. We’ve got a bunch of them. Well, I took the uh, but we can only do one. Well I think what we have to do is we have to say that, uh, you know, one of the biggest hit posts that we’ve ever seen of all time was the two way three way valve diverting mixing and the second largest, uh, post performance was on gas pressure regulators. And you did a nice little, a presentation from the HVAC Tech SChooll from HVAC Tech SChool Play list,. gas pressure pressure regulators made easy. So tell us a little bit about that. I think that was posted the week. Well, thanks buddy. I appreciate that. So we got to go back to what we’ve been telling our community a little bit that we’re really torn up the youtube channel because we get more content up there quicker. So might not always make it to the control website. But uh, so we, we created a playlist of you will called HVAC Tech School, this on the youtube channel. Some of these make it over to Not all of them, but yeah, the gas pressure regulators made easy, uh, you know, how to install them, how they work. We actually take one apart so you can look at it, see how it works of your answers and gas regulators at all. And apparently there are a lot of people who do, you can check that out. It’s actually on controlled trends as well as the controtrends, smart buildings, youtube channel. So I encourage you to subscribe to that if you haven’t already. We’ll put a link for that in the show notes. So that’s a big one in the two and three way valves. Again, sometimes a picture’s worth a thousand stories, a thousand words county. So we know we’re trying to create video content that takes some of these concepts that can be complicated and make them really simple and we’ll build off of those. So we’re going to keep putting those up on the youtube channel and then, well no, a lot of them make it over the Website too. But another massively hit, and this is only available on the ControlTrends Smart Buildings, youtube channel is the midweek review, which uh, one of the smartest guys here on the podcast a does, which is Ken Smyres. So talk about the med review again,Kenny. For our listeners who might know about that and tell them what you do on that and why they, why this is disrupted. He usually do youtube channel so they can get that. Well I appreciate that Eric. I didn’t have makeup on a day. There’s makeup squad wasn’t around so, but you know what I want to be because if you are where big trouble, I was just trying to say something it on there because that was a fast and furious post and the reason why it’s like you said, we had so many dates that were coming closer to windows where you had, you know, sign up by today and you look for, or you would forfeit the opportunity for a discount, whatever. So we had the midweek review is to give somebody a three to four minute synopsis of all the industry events that are coming in the next 60 to 90 days except for our Smart Building ControlTrends Awards, which is going to be February 2nd, 2020 but tomorrow when your calendar in case you’re driving somewhere and you listen to the show or whatever and you have an opportunity or you’re, you’re, you’re listening or you’re watching but you don’t have a whole lot of time trying to give people a synopsis, a real short sweet list of what’s going on and where it’s at and what the dates of signup are. So you know, I covered the, the, the controls con coming up May 2nd, third and we controlled trans as a discount coupon there. So if you go onto and registering, you putting controlled trends, uh, we have the CIO event coming up in Europe and we’ll be putting a post up on that too. But there’s registrations and you take advantage of them. Uh, we’re going to put some other information about the travel costs, whatever, just to lure people into a different alternative vacation this year because you’d kill business and pleasure in the same event. Uh, we have the project haystack out there in California. The, the, uh, what’s that going to be? That’s the 11th through the 13th, I think. Right. But that’s why even I have to refer to it because there’s so much going on. And then you go to the 19th through the 21st is the CIO and Amsterdam and then you turn around, you’ve got a real calm, I become in June leverages, so you’re doing the conferences, but you’re also doing it. And to Kenny’s point, what, what, who is trying to be as on Wednesday afternoon, you can take that, that you can just click on that video, you get an update. But things like if there’s a recall, if there is something going on in the industry, if there’s a cyber security alert, something going on with Niagara or something like that where you need to know something immediately, what we’re trying to do is just make it easy for you to consume. That could control is unique you can use, right? And so Kenny does a great job of that. So it’s not just conferences, it could be a new product release, it can be news you could use. And I think that’s the point of a Kenny just trying to break it down short, simple, sweet. You go to the youtube channel, you quick on this actually if you did the youtube channel, you just cooked a little alarm button, you’ll be notified when this comes out. And uh, so he can hit on that. And then obviously on controlled you get this show, the long winded version. Well, and then when we take our time and we make it happen,

Eric Stromquist: I’ll speak into the long winded version. Uh, what can Steve jobs teach us about the smart buildings controls revolution. Now I got to kick of the stretch you made there. But actually after watching that again, cause I had watched that before, you actually did make sense about what it’s all about. The marketing, how, you know, it’s taken for granted. It’s a critical function, but it’s changing. It’s evolving. It was infused with social media. And if you didn’t handle it right, you lost, you lost a lot of your mainstream. Uh, but today you send papers out in the, in memory, so much marketing, it wouldn’t even open up the envelope. You literally just took it from your inbox to the trashcan. So those days have certainly changed. The people don’t like to take catalogs anymore, whatever. So we were seeing the thumb drive, you know, uh, became the big thing. And even that, starting to, I heard a, a vendor tell a group of people that were looking for, they used to get thumb drives every time they had the presentation. I guess there’s no marketing says you’ve got to go on, go on our website. It’s all there. There’s no sense putting them into these um, drives. Cause as soon as we get them done, they’re obsolete because they’re old and antiquated and we’ve added new products and it’s not serving the purpose it was intended to. Well listen, I encouraging of the website is so about a five minute talk that I’ve found that Steve jobs did and many considerate the greatest marketing message ever and it led to the one what many consider the greatest marketing campaign ever. And like I said, rather than Kenny and give you our take on it. I mean it affected me enough. I just went, holy smokes made so much sense in my, what I’m basically saying is, hey listen to it or watch it. I should sound control with each on comments. We’d love know what you think. But I think there’s so much wisdom and just how, cause he’s basically addressing his, his stockholders and then staff. Right. And, and it was a radical concept as he’s addressing them. And that you kind of can almost hear a pen drop. You’re kind of going, well, they’re not going to like this. And you kind of starts out and makes a statement and he kind of goes from there and by the time he’s done with you, you’re going, and this too, just got it right. So it’s not necessarily what you think about is how you think about something. And I think that that message carries forward to our industry. Every single one of our companies in our industry, I think can learn something from, from this. So please check it out if you check nothing else on site and check that out and reach out and comments. Let me know what you think and, and Kenny what you’d think. And Hey, you know, we’d love, we’d love to share it. I thought no, it was, pardon me. Putting that up here is, I think this needs to be not just a post and needs to be an ongoing dialogue and needs used to be a dialectic. There’s my vocab word for the week, Kevin, that we carry forward as an industry that, that helps us hall, uh, as we move forward in this incredible industry we’re involved all involved in.

Ken Smyers: Right. We had one more shoutout section here and just the, our Linkedin, you know, the, the folks that say good things about us on Linkedin and, uh, some congratulations for birthdays, a Adam, I’ll pull grab ya from Poland. He’s the chief Ito Iot, Bam. B a s P, m, a s h VAC executive, uh, says a, you know, he’s watching our controlled trends. We’ve got Travis curr had a birthday. Uh, he had a art hicks had a birthday. Darlene pope changed job. She now works with the, we work. So, uh, Darlene and Lindsay Baker together. Oh Gosh. Yeah, yeah. Two of the brightest women on the planet together. Whoa man. We want to come to, we works and we’ve got a worked in Hershey Holler. Well, you don’t have to cheat. She was always, she, she, she fast tracked everything. You know, she was really smart. She was just a great speaker. I remember, remember how we got involved with her? Uh, she went to work with the Jones, Jj, Jj Jones. Lang Lasalle. Yeah. And so, uh, well she’s just a, she’s burning, burning, burning to the ground here. It would probably say here, hopefully see her and Lindsay at Haystack, uh, connect, but hey, good. Seriously. That would be a great show Lindsey. And uh, and I know Darlene on at the same time. All right. Then real quickly we have worked anniversaries for Eddie Turner, uh, Stacie O’leary and Richard Satchel, so, well, there you go. Yeah. Right. Well listen, last big thing is definitely check out the Egio collateral that uh, that we just put up. A man eight is going to be quite the event and Amsterdam. Kenny and I will be there, but I think if you look at the collateral we just posted on the site, you’re going to be just amazed. They’re easy. I would just us things, top hat, and this is going to be an amazing coffee. It’s going to be a really great show. It’s going to be your product roadmapping, it’s going to be networking. It’s going to be an exciting partying. There’s going to be a tax deduction. It’s going to be partying cause mad Mike Marston, him and his buddies. Uh Oh. What? Oh, I know Johann Roxborough. What? What’s the big deal? You don’t want to hurt man. I tell you what, it’s like hanging out with Russell brand man. But they get a whole new, it’s a whole new staff. I mean, uh, Johann has retold his whole European division people. It’s going to be cool. It’s going to be great. Be there or what? The square where. All right. There you go. All right. So there you go. That’s another week on control talk. Now you’re smart buildings, video by video cast and podcasts. A special thanks to our guests as we can auto sing choir. Be sure to check out automated buildings, Dotcom. Com by April. First issue is ah, and it is so worth reading. So with that Kenny Smyres, remember be bold. Stay in control. I’m doing Mourinho sweat. Snigger voice Batman and stay relevant.

Speaker 3: Indeed.

ControlTalk Now The Smart Buildings Podcast: Epiosde 308

CTN 308: ControlTalk NOW — Smart Buildings VideoCast and PodCast for week ending Mar 24, 2019 features Young Gun Brent Burrows, a Systems Integrator with ENTEK, who explains Alarm Fatigue, and much more,  ENTEK provides HVAC, Building Automation and Energy Services  in the Atlanta, GA, area and throughout the continental United States, Puerto Rico, Alaska, Hawaii and Guam.

Is Your AI Device Smarter than a six year old? Our transcription service, as you will see is not! I tried to correct as many errors as possible in the transcript of Episode 308, but could not get them all, so be kind as you read this:

Episode 308 ControlTalk Now The HVAC and Smart Buildings Podcast

Eric Stromquist: Do you suffer from alarm fatigue? Well four out of five facilities managers iand HVAC controls professionals do. So what exactly is this insidious disease and how can you cure it? Hi, I’m Eric Stromquist from and And on this week’s episode we’re going to dive deep and into alarm fatigue and how you can solve it. Our guest this week is a young integrator out of Atlanta, Brent Burrows, he’s a young gun. So Brent is going to be with us. The whole show is going to be fantastic. We get Brent’s perspectives which are just absolutely stellar. So the other thing you need to know is that controlledtrends on our youtube channel, controlltrends smart buildings, youtube channel. We’ve started a new video series called HVAC tech school and it’s designed specifically for the HVAC technician and we get into everything from how to size a valve to how to troubleshoot a gasregulator and topics specifically for the HVAC technician. So take a minute, subscribe to the Youtube Channel. All right, relax. Enjoy the show.

Eric Stromquist: Alright here we go. One, two, three. Welcome to ControlTalk Now, the Smart Buildings podcast for the week ending March 24 2019 this is episode this is the show where we talk about all things smart controls, HVAC controls and pretty much anything else we want to. And I tell you what, I’ve got two legends today. One is the one, you know, Ken Smyers, the man, the myth, the legend, the control man from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. And joining us today is a legend in his own right is ControlTrends Young Gun Brent Burrows, from Atlanta, Georgia. Brent is with Entek.. He’s one of the rising stars in the controls industry. And if you were at the 2018 CONTROLTRENDS AWARDSawards, you know that Brent was inducted into The Young Guns class of 2019. So fellas, welcome to the show.

Eric Stromquist: Well thank you Eric. Yeah, you took away all my firepower I suppose to get some of that introduction on Brent Burrows. But uh, yeah, we got a real live young Gun here and uh, it, it, it’s so good to see the right, it looks like the type of guy who’s going to be taking our place one day. So he’s, he’s learning, he’s got some great background. He’s a true integrator, does everything from the programming side of it. And it was all about analytics, but he could do, you could do the terminations to make stuff work. So that’s a welcome to the show Brent.

Brent Burrows: It’s good to have it. And that’s what they’re talking about on the show every once in a while. I really appreciate it guys. And uh, yeah, actually the only real thing I have in my office, the Home Office here, uh, you know, I may have to make up some more awards for myself or some certifications.

Eric Stromquist: No, no young guns. Pretty much all you need man. And now you’re 60 and a young gun or 65. I can send Claire and a young gun then you’re doing really, really good. Okay. Brent man would move. You know, we’re talking about young guns and may one of the wraps that the young guns, the millennials get his man, they just can’t be on time. I know this year here, but tell us about our other guest where is he?

Brent Burrows: who else was supposed to be on the show with us. Uh, I, that’s going to be my new cohost, Aaron Gorka. Ah, I’m not exactly sure where Aaron is now. Maybe they don’t do daylight savings time in Canada or different things. He didn’t, he didn’t change his clock around.

Eric Stromquist: Right. Well, in fairness they are, and man, he has been traveled a lot here and Gorka from ANT technologies, one of the hardest young working guys in the industry. Uh, he is, uh, does the podcast, next generation innovation and brand. I guess the big news is you’re going to be joined and Aaron as his cohost.

Brent Burrows: Yeah. Um, so, um, I had been reading some stuff lately and you know, I listened to you guys on a control talk now on iTunes and I’d always wanted to get into pocket casting and uh, and it just so happened I was featured on a, on an episode, um, a few months back and just really enjoyed it. I’ve worked with Aaron, we actually use aunt technologies, um, to do a track or project side. And uh, so me and him get along and you know, we vibe well. So I reached out to reach out to you and was like, Hey, what do you think this idea? And uh, and you were all for it gave Aaron a call. He was excited to have a cohost. So that’s what we’re going to be doing.

Eric Stromquist: Well, I can’t wait for you guys to take to work together. Aarons just doing a fantastic job so far and it’s kind of fun with the cohost, you know, so the, but if you’re going to get good at this, you have to practice saying this right off the bat. The man, the myth, the legend, let me hear you say it because if something ever happens to me, you know, it’s going to be between you and Aaron to step in. But Kenny is very picky about who gets to be his is to introduce them. So one time, Brent, you’re on, here’s your audition,

Brent Burrows: here’s the audition, alright, we’re on control. Taught now, you know, and in memory of the late, great. Eric, strong quick. No, he’s in a better place now. But I am your new cohost and I am going to introduce the man, the myth, the legend

Ken Smyers: Ken Smyres take it over again. Right. That was awesome man. He passed it. He might, he might not even wait for me to die, man. He might just nice. Did you guys read the second brand? You just put no, he might. He might give me the boot right after the show did. That was a little too good bread, but well listen dude, before we get into more of the show, talks about what you do and, and in tech, I’ve known your dad for years and a, you guys have a fabulous company, but, but talk about about Entek and what you guys do.

Brent Burrows: Uh, so in tech where our ar can about a local, regional, regional and a national company, uh, have handled, you know, many national accounts over the years. Uh, so we have that side of the business and then we have more of our, uh, what I’d call our local and core business here in Atlanta. Um, we specialize in commercial office space. Um, but you know, also do, you know, hospitals, industrial work, really anything you need, um, we can provide the service and the expertise to work in those areas. So we do anything ranging from, you know, mechanical service, installation retrofits and then, you know, hopping into the controls, the building automation, you know, H Vac, lighting, integration, all of that stuff. And we even do system access controls everywhere. So in tech really is a great one stop shop to fill all your building needs.

Ken Smyers: Yeah. One of the things that I saw on the site and we’d talked offline, there is analytics and the impact we have one of our posts we’ll be talking about here as we review the posts. So you’re actually a delving into analytics now. Tell us about some of your experiences so far. What do you think? Is that, is that the next great a goldmine to dig into?

Brent Burrows: Well analytics, no, it’s, it’s been around, um, in, in the HVAC industry for, for a little while now. And it’s kind of, you know, it’s interesting, you’ll go to these conferences or you know, you’ll read stuff and you’ve got, you know, you got kinda these bud buzzwords or one of the big ones that are, and you know, when I kind of look at buzzwords, there are a lot of terms that people throw around, but then they’ll just kind of throw it around and they don’t know the meaning of it and they’re just like, oh yeah, Iot and analytics and, uh, and you’ll just see them, they pop up a lot of conferences, but, uh, but you know, really, uh, been seeing analytics get hammered for the last couple of years now. And basically, you know, one of the great things that you can kind of, they’re doing in the industry now, you know, what, you know, everything being more standardized, like, you know, backnet lawn, um, you know, different protocols come then normalizing the data. And then a, you know, a huge one that I know you guys have talked a lot about and they got the big accounts coming up is haystack. Um, you know, basically being able to take all the data in your building, you know, sensor information, uh, whether it’s, you know, discharge temps, she knows zone temps, uh, you know, all those things and you’re building lighting levels, all this stuff and take it in and get that data. So you kind of get to that point with an integration and it’s like, okay, well let’s just say, you know, I got a 10 story building, uh, so, you know, got 10 air handlers, chiller plant, and then, you know, depending on the level of integration, let’s say I’ve got 20,000 data points in my building, you know, what are you really doing with that? They’re there are, they’re acting out there and they’re just doing their thing. But you know, unless you can hire somebody 24, seven to watch those sites and be like, oh, this is doing this, this is doing this. Um, it’s, it’s, it’s hard to keep track of it. You kind of get into this, uh, you know, very responsive state. Um, you know, trying to manage the building. It’s not forward thinking. It’s not really effective. So analytics comes in and does, is it basically, it’s like, you know, it is, it’s, it’s a 24, it’s 24, seven program that looks at your building, looks at your data and can alert you to the issues going on. And then also in some cases make responsive writes back to correct issues.

Eric Stromquist: Well, that’s well said. Well said. And then I think one of the things that Kenny has sort of picked up early on in, and you were talking about sky spark a little bit because that’s what you’re working with. But, uh, you know, for years back, even when your dad and I were doing this stuff, you know, those old guys, I mean you could always alarm, right? But it got to the point that he had so many alarms, just like my emails, you just become null and void to me just don’t pay attention to anymore. So it seems like one of the things analytics allows you to do is to write rules, for example. So if something goes out of temperature for a while, you could give an expert at a time before it sends out an email or an alarm. You could also maybe we’d send a command to say, hey, try to reset it or whatever before you do that. And so are you finding that that’s driving some of your customers interest into it or her? What sorts of things when, when they say analytics, like I said, it’s a buzz word, but when they come to you or do they actually know what they want her, it’s just, hey, I want an analytics package and you shouldn’t have to talk him through it.

Brent Burrows: Uh, so it, it’s interesting you were talking about, uh, my dad, uh, uh, actually met with him this week and he brought up some of the alarming going on from the 90s, and he was, uh, so, uh, I won’t name them, but you know, big retail client, um, and they, you know, obviously they have sites all around the country and, uh, they had like a fax machine that sat on the side of this room and this thing continually like it reports and the, I think they actually set up a system where it just like fed into like a dumpster or shredded all it did for 24 hours a day. And they were like, he was like, what is that? There was like, oh, that’s the, uh, that’s the alarm matrix. Yeah, I remember those things. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, but you don’t know the, to Eric’s point, uh, I think, um, we’ve seen several, uh, programs now coming out like controls, condoms, coming up with Detroit with the Cochrane supply, Scott Cochran and his team put together this thing. Raven, where you could really, you could eliminate anything. You didn’t want to hear all the chief, you know, and just, just get to the nuggets that you needed to know. And then they teamed that down so much that it would be in a proximity presentation. So top chef, chef get that right. We don’t want people to think, okay, go ahead. I’m sorry, but God, we got that quick. I’m sorry I couldn’t, I’m spit balling here too, but no, go ahead. Saving, saving, saving. Um, so the, the thing that Scott Cochran believed in is it Derek’s point that we’re so overwhelmed with this is data being pushed at us that we ignore it. Now again, we’ve always self defense mechanisms. We turn off our phones, we don’t have to hear the pagan, you know, and then, but then you really could miss that one really important alarm because you’re so, you know, unconditioned to respond to it. The uh, that stuff became packing. They had say, generate so much. I. Dot. Matrix printing stuff that no, he didn’t shred but then that shredding to him went back, got recycled back in the, in the shipping department. But I’m so yeah, so a, the raven thing was a real clever a response. So that not only did you restrict the amount of alarms you got, but they were, they were sent specifically to who needed it and it reduced all that additional traffic.

Eric Stromquist: So yeah, Brent is a cool app if you haven’t seen it. It actually works like with you know, notifications on your iPhone and stuff like that. So you can just set up just the notifications you want to see. So, uh, Scott Cochran’s one clever dude and controls con’s going to be a great conference and uh, we get, we actually have a discount code for that, don’t we county. So we should do, if you put any controlled trends when you registered and put it in a controlled trends, you get a 10% discount and that you’ll get 15 but I know it’s just a matter of time for you blonder and it’s going to cost you an alternate code, a code word. You get 20% off if you mentioned chafing cause that’s right. So you are going to be a great cohosts. He’s good. He’s picking right up on this. Uh, but uh, but so what else? So the analytics, are these primarily the facilities managers asking for this or should it go on up higher? Cause I know you, you know, Dana and the rest of year or down to the rest of your sales staff deals at the c level suite a lot. Is it mainly being pushed down from the c level suite or consulting engineers asking for it? Or how is this even coming into consciousness? Well, it’s a, it’s interesting. So I’m going to go back real quick to the original question that you asked and mentioned something that, uh, you know, it Kinda all goes along with, uh, with the APP. You’re talking about the raven, the alarms, and you mentioned that, you know, just kind of getting, you know, hounded with all this data. And it really does, you know, whether it’s, you know, cause I’ll, I’ll copy myself on the emails most of the time for the alarms. And you know, sometimes it’ll just, I think I went through this morning, there was a point that went in and out of alarm, I didn’t delete like 600 emails.

Brent Burrows: You get into the point of getting alarm fatigue. So yeah. So in the process, let’s just say that you have something that does, does alarm and you get, you know, over the course of three or four months, 600 emails, you’re going to be like, oh no, just delete all those. Don’t worry about that. And sandwiched in there and one or two of those. Yeah. What was important data. So that’s why it’s important, you know, when you’re doing the integration is the freestyle. Yeah. Make sure you set up, you know, your alarms and your, so there are going to be alarms that happened, but you know, maybe just only send out, you know, prioritize with your alarm classes. Um, but, but then to get back to a, to what you’re mentioning about what level do you kind of see the requests from analytics coming? Um, I think it really depends. Uh, so a lot of what we, uh, we deal with customers we deal with in the Atlanta market. Um, you know, we’ll go into existing buildings and whether, you know, we’re upgrading them from, you know, DDC from the 90s or just straight pneumatics and everything, uh, you just hit it. There are different levels of involvement from, you know, different companies and, you know, different positions. So, all right know, I’ve got to figure out what’s going on and I cannot, I don’t have the time to pour through this site and I don’t want to, you know, pay a monitoring company, you know, just every, every month. Because you know what, that’s great. You know, the, there were a few people that we followed around in Atlanta or would go to and there was like, oh yeah, we paid this company $2,000 a month. Just watch this. It’s like, but it takes you six hours to get him on the phone. And then sometimes they do it, sometimes they don’t. But they’ll always let you know when that checks in the mail. The, um, the analytic thing, one of the big impulse or impacts was when Niagara JACE started coming with 25 free analytic points to get you a taste of it, you know, and then we started to see people dabble at it, but we really didn’t have a whole lot of, uh, you know, takers. And then once they got into it, uh, so it all became, you know, a basically about templating it. But, uh, the Phil fearless fills Zito had a really nice, uh, extract on when he did a synopsis on end for about what he said that what they added to inform and to analytics too. Dot. Oh, was that make capabilities where the preexisting analytic data model it was in, it was inherent embedded a base algor algorithm library and then a realtime on premise analytic control. So one of the things that we saw now was that people, if they wanted to start to dabble, they got a good free tastes that, or a complimentary tastes of analytic points that they could take a couple of points and do exactly what you’re saying. Pick out the top, maybe ones that you’re getting those multiple alarms, you know, and then have it so that you could control the amount of alarms that you got from that point. So, uh, again it’s, it’s still, it’s just touching the, uh, the, you know, the top of the iceberg because a sky founding of course was the, the industry leader. I mean they basically defined analytics to us. Well, no, it’s cool. We can, I’ve got a question where I think we might have a new vocab word here and I wonder if you’ve heard of this before. No, no, no, no, no, no. Alarm fatigue has the first time I heard that if you heard the term alarm fatigue before, actually I have this, but I heard it said in that perspective, that context. But you’re right, I mean, so I think Brent is coach and he’s got his first new phrase, alarm fatigue. Okay. We’re, we’re going to give you a nickname or get you a tee shirt. It’d be Brent Burroughs alarm fatigue. So I did write that down though. So that’s a great one brand. I like that a lot. So bread for our integrators out there who may be, have not gotten into analytics or you know, Skype specifically sky foundry, um, kind of walk them through. I mean, how difficult is it? Is it to get started with it because know there are a lot of integrators, outdated, heard of analytics and maybe you know, think they can do it or don’t think they can do it, but what do they need to know? If you’re just starting to scratch your ears, assistant center grader and you haven’t worked with analytics, sort of walk them through it. Uh, so obviously, you know, um, like the sky spark, um, sky spark software, you know, like anything else, uh, to be able to sell it, you know, you have to get signed up with a distributor, all that. Um, so, you know, first need to find somebody that can not distribute it. And it’s really important, you know, when you’re kind of going into a new software, I believe this with anything, is to make sure that you’ve got a good support channel. Um, you know, like in between you and then, you know, and sky foundry, which I’ll say for sky foundry, their online database of like help, documentation, everything. It’s phenomenal. Um, I have used that a ton. It’ll actually basically walk you through setting up site, uh, comes with a great demo site so you can look at how everything’s set up and then, you know, reverse engineer. Cause you know, as a, as a systems integrator or you know, anything else, it’s, it’s similar. You know, it’s, it’s just like physically, you know, kinda like building an engine or something. How do you really figure out how an engine works? Well, take one apart and put it back together and you’re going to have a good idea of what those components do, where they go and everything. Same thing applies to the software. So, uh, getting started there. Go ahead. Eric Stromquist: No, that’s a good analogy. And you know, and I think that’s where you’re talking about the division of labor and, and the, and the support structure, you know, some of the, some of the great products. And so the great applications that have failed, uh, did so not because it wasn’t a great application is because people didn’t take to it well, they didn’t have a support structure, he didn’t have that engaging support that you’re talking about. And some of these new people, new products and solutions we see coming in, especially in North America, you know, the, the contracting mentality as they wanted so they can understand it and they want to be able to do that physically create an analogy. So this is how you put it together and it’s how you take apart and by the time you do that, you know, the steps are all procedural and the methodologies very consistent and then you get really good at it. I think the, the commitment, this guy foundry is significant, but once you get there, you’ve got it’s money well spent and you just, it’s a gold mine, right? Can, it will listen and Brent, this is a, that a, you’re going to probably have to do with Aaron Gorka called stable datum, right? Because we, as we’re assuming that our entire audience listening to the show right now understand what Skype boundary disguised park is. So Kenny, if you don’t mind, would you just give our audience just a quick overview of what it is because I think people have heard of analytics, they’ve heard of data, but they may or may not have heard of skies park. Uh, if they don’t listen on a regular basis. Kenny, let’s give our audience a little stable datum on exactly what guys foundry isn’t what sky’s parks are.

Ken Smyers: All right. Well, you know, I would recommend everybody to Google or not Google, but to come to our website control to trends. And then just to take a look at John Patsy or look at sky found in there because we have multiple videos of John explaining it, what it is through interviews or whatever. But essentially the synopsis, The Sky Spark is an open analytic platform from sky foundry that automatically analyzes building data from sensors, automation systems, meters and other smart devices to provide useful building insights, sky spark insights, help facility managers, building owners and business managers identify trends, issues, faults, correlations. And opportunities for cost reductions and building improvements. Uh, and then also the, the, the growth of it. You know, so we were asking about, you know, who wants it and how is it implemented? And it comes from all different dimensions. It doesn’t come from consistently the COO or the CTO or you know, a smart building owner. It comes from people that have problems that need them fix. So just give me an idea. There’s more than 10,000 facilities around the globe that are using sky spark right now. They analyze buildings, data over 650 million square feet of buildings. Imagine that. Then they went over a billion. And by the way, that’s further on, but commercial buildings, apartment buildings, apartment complexes, hotels, resorts, data centers, industrial facilities, educational campuses, government buildings, large multi-use retail spaces and other large complex facilities. But if you remember the one crazy thing about it is we start small with one building using the sky, spark and sky foundry or analytics, you know, because there’ll be other versions of analytics. But in order to get to the smart cities, you’ve got to start small. It’s a modular thing. So you’d go from one building building. Exactly. But this whole thing crescendos into a smart city where you’re, everybody is getting that data there knowing that usages and aren’t in and we’re occupancies are they knowing when they have about, you know? Right, right. And I think, you know, again, John Petze used to be president of tritium, one of the brightest guys on the planet. Great Drummer too. Buddy rich has nothing on John Petze. But uh, you know, we only all went sky spark first came out or sky founder first came out. It was kind of cost prohibitive almost just simply because to connect the data points together really required somebody to go in and link this to this, to this, to this, to this. But that’s all changed now. It’s gotten super formed. Super, Super Price Competitive Kenny because of drum roll. HAYSTACK CONNECT. I tried to download, try new vocab words. I need another cup of coffee. That’s a good one buddy. I know you want to do that. And Yeah, because again, we’re trying to promote project haystack to the best of her abilities and really get the community excited about it. But I think we’re getting other people excited about it. I think there’s people that are learning outside of the HVC, bas industry that understand that haystack tagging. For instance, we had Samsung, uh, from, uh, the smart car. Don’t trick me again here. Most of name again, can we need first and last name for try again? Go, go, go, go, go, go to the Control Trent website, highlight her name and then have Google pronounced that JMC futurist, right when, anyhow, she took the, the haystack tagging to heart and talk. It was an, you know, it’s, it’s just absolutely vital to eliminate all the friction and bring down to two. We’re belongs as quickly as possible. There should be cooperative. You ready for an analogy? Haystack tagging is to sky foundry every other analytics or control system as gasoline is to a car. What do you, what do you think about how, how bad is like, you know, uh, I mean, you know, and not another analogy. I think one of the great things about having haystack, it’s, it’s basically this organization that says, yes, you know, hey guys, instead of re reinventing the wheel, here you go, we’re going to give you the tools or instead of making all your own custom stuff, here’s the tools to do it. You know, it’d be kind of like every kind of like, you know, I guess it’s, you know, not using haystack tagging. I feel like doing your analytics to standardize it. It’s kind of like going back to the, you know, Dark Ages or the prehistoric times of, you know, where you just have different tribes and they have like all their own forms of communication. Like, you know, I don’t, most marriages, well, you know what I do, I think that’s going to, that’s going to work there because if you hear John pets he talking about, he actually gets mad, he’ll, he’ll start out real calm and mellow and hills. He’ll start saying, but, uh, his patients in the industry I think is waning because it’s a choice. And you know, again, a lot of people have, you know, big legacy investments and they’ve got, you know, look at corporations are run and, and they, they really truly have to control the rate of adoption and, and, and is it his money comes it. I mean we had the guy from Sweden tell us, you know, all these things could have been fixed many, many, many years ago if there wasn’t a, you know, an economic reason not to do it. So brand have an economic reason to get them right. Now where I am, Brent needs to know this, cause I know your listener brown button it Kenny. This is the part of the show where we come up with are conspiracy theories. Okay. Okay. No, no, no, no, no. And I want to do something right now too. It’s certain, Huh? Jam Fee. So that’s not sued. Sud h a JMT j a m t h e. Dot. The Jaffe. Right. This Suda Hey, you know what I practice, come on. Say it. And you know what? I’m going to sit on this one because I, I haven’t had a chance to write it down and sanded it out. But I think this is like a good idea for like a new bit.

Eric Stromquist: You should do Kenny Kenny’s words a week and put a word down and then have them like phonetically sounded. I know Kenny. No, no, we got one of this when Kenny’s word of the week. Shaef Chase, rub your face with a scarf or something and you scraped, I think he’s in a different context today, which is like the data was shaved off of the sound. No, it was to do with the wheat and, and the other stuff. Boys in the shaft, not the shape. You’re not going here. Let’s get back to those two words are a little too close. Well, you know what I think so. I have a lot of those. So look at that. That’s a good sign. That means that your brain’s working. Okay, so let’s get back to Brent. Meanwhile, back to Brent. So Brent, again speaking to integrators out there that maybe haven’t taken the punch to do an analytics and his specific way sky founder, you sort of walk them through the steps, you know, they can call Ken or Eric, that should be your distributor., STROMQUIST.COM And after you get with your distributor, what happens next? So after you get with your distributor, uh, hopefully they can set you up on SKY FOUNDRY Um, so you can get into the resources you can access. Um, it’s pretty cool once you get everything set up. Um, sky spark actually has a demo and all you have to do is just pretty much upload the demo and then you can go through all the steps, all the steps they give you online.

Brent Burrows: They give you like a five part, um, kind of do it yourself. Um, you know, set up the data points and you know, add the equipment, add the points, add the tags, go, go view the data and do everything. So you get practice, like kind of like we talked about putting something together. So you get practice doing that and then you start going, all right, I can see this, I can see how this will work. Uh, and then after you do that, you’re going to want to go to one of the sky’s spark, uh, analytics, uh, classes. Typically I think it’s like a two or a three day class. Um, they get you all set up on there. After that you are going to be able to, uh, to sell the product and uh, and really do it. Um, and one of the cool things is, is basically, you know, if I had to like look at it and you know, just look at, you know, your customer set and figure out 10 rules, figure out 10 things that you want to look for. You know, the last thing you want to do is be like, oh, I got to come out with, you know, 500 something rules or I’ve got to figure out how much, you know, k w port per square foot. You know, when people, uh, you know, have a Dell computer or laptop in there, it’s like, okay, just, just kind of back it off. Keep it simple to start, like one of the biggest ones, uh, that, that I see and you know, I see it around Atlanta a lot. You’ve got these, um, these old [inaudible] use that still have to use pneumatic a pneumatic actuators. So, and you’ll see that and you’ll see, you know, you’ll use a DDC controller, goes to a, uh, goes to a transducer and then that sends the air pressure pneumatic actuator and you know, it, they’ve, they have it that way because the cost to retrofit one of those, as you know, it’s like four hours and you know, maybe like a $340 part, you guys posted something a long time ago and I think strong Quist offered a retrofit part. It’s for those, uh, to basically take that internal damper and then change it over to, you know, have an external, yeah, it was, it was trying, I wasn’t sure if we were mentioning manufacturers or anything. So I remember that then. And we’ll, you know, we saw a lot of that too. Yeah, that was a, that was an excellent demo and I’m very successful to do, to kind of move things on. I don’t know. Hang on real quick. I can’t, if you don’t mind. There’s one other thing I wanted to sort of bring around because Brent, I think it was brilliant. You know all the rules come up with 10 you can, you can come up with, so for example, for our property management people out there, you got building a and it is using 50,000 kw per month. You’ve got building B, it’s using 25,000 kw month and you’ve got building c, which is just in 150,000 kw a month. Which one is most energy efficient? One uses the most energy. Well and you do that, that’s easy. But you know, basically it, you can Kinda, you can organize the data because you know, what if one is a single story building, how many square foot, how many people are occupied. So you, and part of the reason I brought that up was you used the term earlier, which for our owners out there who might not think this was, I didn’t think this way, it was explained to me part of what Brent’s companies able to normalize your data because oddly enough, the small, the one with the least amount you spend the amount of money on might be the most energy efficient, the one that you’re spending the most on because this maybe 10 times bigger might be your most energy efficient. So unless you can normalize it.

Eric Stromquist: And what I mean by normalizes taking random data points or data points, bringing them together and setting their criteria like square foot footage, occupancy times a number of people and that, so that’s a big part of us gotta be one of the first ones that you guys would go for. I would take if you have multiple facilities. Right. So, um, so I’ll go, I’ll go back. It was just kind of that the brief example with the damper, and I know I was kind of explained some technical stuff on it, but it’s, you know, like a real real simple rule is like, you know, and you can compare it, you know, how many VAVs PKI use, things like that. Kind of like you’re talking about. But you know, the big ones that you can see, you know, a Vav is it open at 100% not satisfying the CFM.

Brent Burrows: So either we’ve got mechanical problem, we’ve got a design problem, you know, somewhere in the chain. And also the biggest thing, one of the things I see the most money wasted on, like with that particular style of box is this thing has electric heat strips in it. So electric heat, huge energy user. I mean just unbelievable. So it’s got the heat going, right? Trying to satisfy the space and you’ve got a bad damper bladder and there that’s not in 600 800 cfm through. So I’m simultaneously heating and cooling space. I’m basically dehumidifying your space when you get to pay for it. As long as this thing has occupied and you know, put that over a 15 story building and let that happen, you know, uh, on a cup on each floor. And just remember that the first real calm I become, and you’ve met right? You know, Smith and he said that, uh, their biggest, um, why I got this one. Can I do this one? Okay. You just cause I don’t, I normally don’t know much about, I do know this. So Brandon, Darryl Smith, random Microsoft campus back when Kenny and I first met him, and this is the best example of alarm first as rules base did I ever heard. And what Daryl was saying was a, this huge campus, huge, huge energy bills. They never got an alarm because the Microsoft campus was the most comfortable campus. You could be anywhere. All those buildings were comfortable. They put in a program similar to sky’s bar and they realize the reason their energy was so high and the reason nobody complained about the temperature was that their heating and cooling ran at the same time to maintain temperature. They had no idea that was happening until they put the analytics package. And so then what happened, consequently, after that was, uh, you know, they fixed that problem. They started getting a lot of alarms and Bill Gates got mad at Darryl Smith. So there you have it. You have anything you want to add to that, Kenny? I’m sorry. No, no, no. It was, it was the whole thing we said to you, you know, some of the things that they were saying is the valve of the heating valve was clogged, blocked, open, you know, it wasn’t Seton properties. So then it was leaving too much heat into the space and an air conditioning or the, you know, Viv is letting, calling in. So the bottom line was that you could have no, uh, alarms are no complaints that nobody’s complained about the temperature of being too hot, too cold, but that’s not necessarily a good thing. So what they started to analyze, uh, was if the state changes doesn’t change over a certain period of time, that there’s reason for concern, something that should be going up and down based on different, uh, the different, uh, aspects of the building, different times of day, different whatever. But nothing should stay the same. No temperatures and stayed 72 for longer than maybe like 60 minutes. And if it does, that’d be one of the rules we’d say somebody needs to look at it probably got, you know, something’s going on there that you said requires some investigation. But um, I am, I’m a little bit concerned that we’re, we’re going to get the time, uh, isn’t slip away so we should throw in some of these posts so that they get more friends. Comments on your bread.

Eric Stromquist: This is part of the audition here. Now we’re going to go through some post of the week and you got to make it yet like really astute comments about them. Okay. I don’t want to suppress them cause you know, you’re, you’re a systems integrator and you bring like a different perspective. Absolutely. Is this relevant to your world or not? You know, what’s one posts you want to talk about? For now, we’ll just go kind of lighthearted cause uh, you know, again, the two and you know, nuggets to take away into some of this has kind of superficial stuff with like the next post you want to talk about and get Brent’s comments on is the, the new facility manager might be a robot. Uh, and how will artificial intelligence affect your building? We know from Ken Sinclair that artificial intelligence is common. It’s a real thing, how quickly they adoption rate’s going to be and whatever. Or is it happening with or without our knowledge? Uh, and he calls it automated, intelligent, not intelligence, artificial intelligence. So the question would ask you there is that you, do you think that artificial intelligence has a foothold already? Uh, w what’s the adoption rate with your end of the world or your from your perspective? Um,

Brent Burrows: so, uh, in, in terms of, of running buildings right now where we’re at and you know, Atlanta, Georgia, um, I haven’t seen a whole lot of artificial intelligence in a, and the particulars particular areas where at, um, obviously that’s the way am, I mean every, everything’s moving that way, you know, whether we still really haven’t seen a whole ton of, you know, a voice stuff come in to, you know, the building automation world. So I feel like you’re going to see that come in and then you’re going to see AI. But that’s kind of the analytics thing too, is, you know, and we were talking about earlier, you know, it used to be you’d pay somebody to monitor this and they would watch it and now you have a computer that’s doing it, you know, a, a program that that just looks at. It looks at rules, it compares the data, and then it gives you an outcome. So go ahead. So based on how you define artificial intelligence, in many cases, some of it’s already there, it’s just not called artificial intelligence. God was charging two grand a month to technical data. I mean he’s already been replaced by a robot. Right. Which is a shame. That’d be a sweet deal. So Eric, uh, so I got it said Jan, Jan. Okay. Now, so the next, the Kenny, he’s like, it’s not jam. J A M is Shanthi. It’s a softer version. Okay. So if we’re doing artificial intelligence, let’s take this thing to the next level. And we had this very intelligent futurist and she is the real McCoy. She is internationally, globally recognized for her, her understanding and divisions that are coming. You know what our world is going to look like in five 10 15 years. But she did this thing on smart buildings and powering smart buildings, smart cars and the whole idea of sustainable building, sustainable energy cars that are driving and they’re basically collect the energy, putting in a battery. The car gets to the building that it works, it’s parked at and plugs in and instead of the building powering the car up again, cars powering the building up in an emergency situation that you could really exploit this cause it’s just moving energy. You know, cars are literally collect the energy and then moving them to where they needed nick actually plug into a building. Um, not, not that we’re going to see this anytime soon, but what do you think that, uh, the Atlanta metropolitan area is that, is that kind of technology receptive? You see that? I know that a, with Eric, with your smart car, you’re a customer, your test, the, one of your biggest issues at first was the charging stations. They could be busy, it might not be available, but you know, it was, it was trying that new technology. Does it fit, do you see us moving a year end of the world there, uh, Brent taking, adopting that kind of technology or is it kind of an out there kind of like, I dunno, I’m sure had you asked the question, you know, 20 or 30 years I had like, had you asked when maybe Eric and my dad were working together a little bit, like, you know, hey, where are you thinking we’re going to be in 30 years with us in buildings? It’s like snack. I’d be met that it’s not going to matter. All our cars going to be flying around anyway. It’s kind of local conceptions out there. Oh, we’ll get to your point. I mean, I look at this thing every day and I’m all, I marvel over the iPhone every day because I just, I can’t get over it. Cause my wife’s German, she talks to her sister’s like we’re talking, you know, across the street. And it doesn’t cost a dime. They used to be my third biggest expense. You know, we had mortgage, car and then phone. Right. Well, you know, Kenny, I had been on my, I’m like, rephrase the question a little bit because you know, I think the car was just sort of an example of the fact that you could use a battery to power building and Nissan actually did with their corporate headquarter and a suit. The JMT talks a lot about, uh, about the fact that you can now contribute to the grid and said you’re just drawing off the grid. And I think a more Germane sort of, uh, uh, question might be do see a day where maybe

Ken Smyers: the batteries are powering the buildings. Um, yeah, I mean, you know, tech technology continues to evolve and to just things that you just never thought were possible. Kind of like, you know, like the analogy there of a, you know, thinking about a battery charging and building. I mean, you know, absolutely. It’s possible. What, you know, what Ken just talked about, you know, with that right there, I’m sure you guys saw him back in the, uh, you know, maybe even the 80s, the early nineties. Like what are the first cell phones look like? Where did the first computers, they’ll quite white mainframes hold clinic rooms and now this is more powerful than the first computer mainframe huge rooms that were created. I’m really glad you cleaned that up for me cause I’m not, hang on, hang on. I’m not done yet. I’ve got a Mike, my conspiracy theory and then you can come back to you Ken. So I have a conspiracy theory cat because Brent, you know, you guys hard Johnson controls is wanting the lines you handles was Honeywell on this tech Johnson controls is one of the largest car battery or manufacturers in the world. Okay. So you start thinking about that and then you put into the fact that Tesla developed something called the power wall, right in California. What that because you know, you could have the solar energy coming in but you pretty much had to use it or lose it. What the power wall, you were able to store it. Okay. So I think Johnson and Tesla are getting together right now. I think what’s going to happen is you’re going to have solar panels on the building. There’s going to come down to some sort of a power wall that will hold the charge, that will charge the battery and then the battery will charge the building. Well Eric, to your point, I think, uh, I’m glad you did it cause I was thinking the same thing. We know that Johnson controls made a major investment and batteries. And one of the scenarios we saw Brent was really cool was that, you know, uh, with a DC AC wars mobile. Derek and I used to cover the Westinghouse versus Tesla and how, uh, it was a power station thing who could transmit the power of the further Stacy one but DC. Now it’s coming back in. And many people were saying, why are we taking power, making it a scene and converting it back to DC inside of a building since every something inside of the buildings operating on DC. What about we put a big battery in the basement in, you know, some mechanical room or whatever and we power it up. And from there we power the entire building with 24 volts DC.

Ken Smyers: And then you have power over ethernet and we have all these really incredible ideas. But so to your point, and I agree with you 100%, it’s not, it’s just a matter of when we get the opportunity to deploy these technologies are here. It’s just, it’s in the economic constriction. It says the economic, you know, friction, you gotta, you gotta make money and people have to transition from one technology to the other. But it doesn’t mean it’s not going to have, it’s just the question of when. Right. So I, you know, it’s really interesting to about, um, you know, buildings doing that. Obviously it’d be much easier, you know, as with anything, um, you know, if you’re building a brand new building to be able to Spec that stuff and then absorb it into the cost of, you know, of doing the building as opposed to looking at a building that has everything that has ac powered, whether, you know, lighting, HPAC equipment, you know, literally everything and being like, all right, we’re going to rip all this stuff out and then we’re going to put all of this and, and it’s going to cost you, you know, x and whoever owns the building or she come managers of the building, it’s like, no, we’re not. It’s a great point, Brent and know that my father in law lives in New Mexico, right? And they used to subsidize solar panels, but then the electric company, conspiracy theory started, you know, not making as much money so they don’t subsidize any more. So now it’s cost prohibitive to do it. But I tell you what, I think, uh, I want to get back to Ed Tech and your dad a little bit because your dad is when I got to be kidding me, your dad is one of the brightest businessmen know. And when your dad would say is, if you want to have heard him say this over the years, you want to paint it blue, I’ll paint it blue. You want to back you on a battery power building, not give you a battery painted battery power building. Right. So, uh, uh, and I, and I think at the end of the day, it’s, this is, you know, a lot of conjecture on our part. It’s fun to talk about, but at the end of the day, uh, what’s going to make the most sense for the owners is what they’re going to do. Yeah. My favorite ones are listen to the Paul Oswald and listen to, uh, George Thomas from contemporary controls. The, these guys are the more senior faculty in our, in our industry and they say, you know, we keep talking about this absolutely wowed off the wall technology when we still don’t fix belts and we still don’t do it. Most primordial maintenance you need, uh, you know, and keeping the motors running and stuff like that. So I think what you have to do is you have to keep one foot on its tectonics. It’s moving and shifting when it applied. Yeah. Plate tectonics. There we go. Brent and we still have a vocabulary from you yet. What have we done? We got it. Tig. Hold on. Protect. Yes. Right. I’m sorry I got circled them when you said that. I will give you credit when I like something that somebody says something cool, I write it down and at the end of it when we have to write the show notes up or whatever, I can run through all these little circles, nuggets there and alarm fatigue is circled. We’re going to, we’re going to take this thing into a macro level again, and we’re going to shift gears and just security, cybersecurity. We’re going to go into your version of cybersecurity. How often you bump into it, what does it, what does it scare you to death or you got to, you got a handle on it. What’s, what’s going on from your perspective?

Brent Burrows: Um, you know, cyber security, obviously you now have extremely important, I would say as important as, uh, eh, as anything you’re, you’re really doing in a building, you know, as long as you know you’re not, when you’re putting in controls, you’re not just absolutely wrecking the equipment. What’s the, the other thing, keeping, you know, unauthorized people from entering your site? Um, if you can isolate it. That, and that’s the biggest thing was cybersecurity, uh, that I’m kind of saying, um, from our end is things need to be isolated. Um, so like you really do, you need to have like, you know, for your h Vac, building automation, security access, all that stuff. Um, like to isolate it if you can on, on separate networks. I mean, you know, you don’t have to look far, uh, with different, you know, cybersecurity issues and large retailers, whether it’s through, you know, the credit card scanners or you know, however these hackers get in to access, you know, a bunch of people’s personal data at places. Like it’s just kinda like, holy crap. I thought that was a very unimportant, this thing just turns the lights on, turns the lights off and now they’ve got access to, you know, social security numbers of all the data that we’re keeping over here. So, um, there’s some really cool products out there. I’m like, you know, one that y’all rep, uh, that, uh, yeah, that, that’s it. I really liked that. Um, you want to talk about security like that is that, that is the deal. Um, the, the ease access is, you know, not as much like, you know, you can’t just start grabbing a bunch of random devices and, and doing it. There’s got to be a little bit more prep work, but you want to talk about secure and a and manage like dad is awesome. So it’s not that expensive dye tee people. Cause I guess a part of the question would be are you running it up when you put a system or the it people now more concerned or they come, do you say you’re going to try to what to my network or I know you guys work on a different sort of size building and stuff like that, but uh, yeah, uh, I actually had a meeting with a, with a 19 manager, um, just just recently within the last couple of weeks. And he was wanting to know like a, you know, what are you going to do or how does this need to be set up and everything like that. And uh, it’s, it, it’s a good conversation to be able to have with them in person. Like don’t try and pass it off to someone else that isn’t going to be working on the technical side because it’s just that then things get misinterpreted and people get defensive. You’re not putting this on my network and all this, you know, it turns into like a little peon contest when you don’t need it. It’s just, you know, a good conversation to have. And that’s one of the things Tridium does a good job with is, you know, they have a, they’ve got it out there. I’m not sure what the most updated version is, but it’s called the hardening guide, which, uh, um, basically goes through and it’ll tell you how to most securely set up your system. And if you can go through that with an eye with, you know, manager or, or whoever, then everybody can be comfortable. All the data can all be out there. And then, you know, you make sure that you’re putting in the most secure option. You know, so ironic you said that because I sent that to somebody this morning. Um, the issues were on the audit trails and about, you know, uh, who gets into the system and then when I have as the Niagara for hardening, it’s from six 28, 2018. So I’m sure there’s one, uh, more recent than that, but you’re exactly right. It’s, uh, I think it’s a 48 page document. Let’s see. Yeah. And it really goes deep dives into a 42 pages. So, um, but what we have, uh, for, for the controlled trans community is we have a responsibility to keep, keep cybersecurity as a concurrent trend is the top trend. We post the NIST released in ist and they give us, you know, the checklists and take people on an individual level and organizational level, uh, you know, a corporate level and then a city level.

Ken Smyers: So we have two posts that I just want to bring them up real quick. One is the, a Schneider electric has a cybersecurity, a Webinar you can sign up for and it has a, a lot of great information. And then two, for the people that are really in the business dot have deep, we have a smart and secure city, the community challenge expo and Washington DC July 10th and 12th. And it’s about security. Cybersecurity on a, on a macro level. So, and ist the US Department of Homeland Security and sciences, the technology, are they basically the sponsors of it? It’s a free registration is free, but you have to preregister it’s required for attendance. You can’t just walk in there online and we have a hot button to it. But so cybersecurity is, you’re right. So Brent, Brent, you just hit three correct answers in a row. So we’re going to over and cybersecurity is one. It’s as important as anything else. We’re, we’re, we’re, we’re, we’re, we’re, we’re working with now if we have to have a responsibility, we have to own that responsibility and learn about it. We don’t necessarily have the solution for it, but we can be part of the solution or part of the problem. Well said. Well said. Well, listen, dude, uh, let’s, let’s talk about a couple more things. A couple of other vets and then we’re probably going to need to hop off here. But, uh, where Brent, you gotta talk to your dad about this cause you want to go to this conference? Edi. Oh, easy. Easy. I know they call it easy time. What are the dates on these? Okay, you want to go to Amsterdam with this bra? Yes. Sounds great. Yes we do. It’s, it’s May 17th through the 19th, and it’s going to be in Amsterdam and it’s going to be an extraordinary event. We’re taking the lid off this thing now because, uh, there’s, um, the importance of it is growing. Uh, what ECI is doing is they’re going to really walk us through the roadmap and they’d been the innovators. It’d probably been the strongest leading innovator company of all the recent companies for just the, the ability to get things done quickly. Put an FSL server size to controller inside of a regular, you know, fit the build of a, of a know basically a controller that it’s core for core processors, quad core processors and, and, and it just sort of new paradigm as shaking all the other vendors in there. You’re doing something incredible now. They’re kind of, they were going to reduce it. They’re going to get fs 20. So it’s going to use smaller compact is you had the same from inability. It’s just cost less money. And so they do the wireless thing. So they’ve got the FTO for coming out and all those things. Clever and amazing thing. Lim who in charge came up with some very, very interesting things.

Eric Stromquist: No, Kenny, you’re, you’re, you’re so right about the technology. But listen, let’s focus on the event itself because these guys know how to throw a party where up go to Europe. Okay. And write it off on your taxes. These guys, you’ll learn stuff. But man, we’ve been to all the major soccer stadiums. I made these guys know how to throw a party. It is the best time you’ll have. You’ll learn a lot. You meet integrators from all around the world now Kenny, Brett and I are going to be there. Maybe Aaron Gorka even show up if he gets out of bed long enough to see what’s going on here. But uh, but so that’s going on. We’ve got that. We got real calm. Be Con coming up Kenny in Nashville, Tennessee and then we’ve got the Afore mentioned a HAYSTAK CONNECT. Hey look, get started. We got to start at the beginning here. We got national [inaudible] you got, what do you mean? We have to start at the beginning to see that much 26 this week we got a major event down in Baltimore. And anybody close to that, you go to it. It’s one of the best, uh, you know, uh, in, in our, each department of the country and is great to network and get great training. Uh, it’s start, just wait, we have controls con coming up May 2nd through the fourth up there in Detroit. And I’ll tell you why that’s another one. We have a discount code putting in control trends when you registered. Then we go to project haystack. Okay. May 17th and 18th. I’m sorry. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. May I have, we just had the post up so, uh, that’s on the side. You can go to the site and check it out, but I’m just with my, my, my emphasis is on bang, Bang, Bang. But the, uh, it’s gonna be uh, uh, a resort area too. That’s extraordinary. Anyhow, you’re right, it’s at the Paradise Island, Paradise Island. And uh, it’s May 13th through the 15th. I ride right before we go to go to Holland. But it last but not least, June 11th through the 14th real calm. I be con that’s going to be in Nashville, Tennessee. And we also have a controls trans code coming from Jim Young and the, excuse me, Howard Berger and Lisa, which too. So we’re excited about it because we’re starting as a pivot point for this, this incredible information. Obviously people can’t make it to all of them, but that’s where you need to do your homework. If you’re an integrator and you’re learning about this stuff, uh, you know, you might want to go to a haystack because you can start using that template. If you’re, you’re into the integration and you want to work with the latest and greatest set of tools, do you need to get the easy Ios Global World Conference? You get the additional benefit of some travel and they do have a spectacular today program. Uh, and then if you’re in the real estate business and you’re servicing people that make the need to know how they can make a smarter, more intelligent, more connected building, then you need to go to real calm. So hang on. There’s one more county. Hmm. Very well done. That was nicely done. Okay. Very succinct to the point. I love it. Now, if you need an integrator to put all this great technology and we know a pretty good one in Atlanta on name Entech Brett, tell us how people get hold of Edtech and, and some of the things you guys do,

Brent Burrows: uh, to get ahold of Uh, you know, go to our website, all the contact information, um, or call Eric and he’ll get you over to us. Um, but, uh, but what we do is we try to offer, you know, an an all in one solution. You know, we’d like to thank you. Now we’ll do a little bit of everything. What we’ll do. Anything that you let us do, you know, Kinda like you said before, you want me to paint it green, I’ll paint it green. Yeah. Um, so, uh, so, you know, we do a, the HPAC controls, uh, cardax card access, integrating those systems together. Uh, and then the mechanical HPAC, uh, you know, do all that systems analytics. Um, you know, we try and be, you know, either an all in one solution or if, you know, take one. No, extremely happy with your mechanical company. We’d love to do your controls, vice versa.

Eric Stromquist: Well, the other thing too, Brent and I want to bring up your dad and your company has and more national account work. So if you’re a big box or even a little box retailer that has multiple locations across the United States, your dad’s been doing that for the last 40 years with major accounts. So, you know, a lot of times people that they like assist and they want something put in and uh, uh, I’m going to tell us about your dad before we go. You’ll like this canning, uh, all across the country. So you guys do national accounts as well and do a great job with that. So here’s the story. How many of you know who doctor Laura is? I don’t. Oh Gosh. He had to talk to her. She was like a battle ax. It’s like, you know, you’ve got to be tough. You’ve got to do this and you, you know kind of like a doctor Phil on steroids, although Dr Phils Kinda cuter and she is but uh anyway your dad is doing a borders bookstore and doctor Laura is, they’re doing a book signing and your dad’s up on a ladder working, not working on the Vav box and all of a sudden he hears this voice, hey come over here and move these books and he kind of looks down and goes, who’s doctor Laura or she’s asking me to go do some stuff. So I just waved at her and went right back up and just anyone you ever get a chance to talk to branch dad had worlds, one of the funniest guys and then she wanted the best story tellers rent. Man, thank you so much for being on the show this week. Very excited about what you and Erin, you’re going to come up with a herons. Episode seven is up on control, a controlled product. I’m going to see control controlled was a great episode and I guess starting at episode eight will probably be you and him working together. So excited about that and they controlled trans community is lucky to have you on board, so thank you for doing this. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me looking forward. All right, so now, now I know you normally listen to the podcast so we got to practice this outro,

Ken Smyers: two more things real quick. I’m sorry this is part of the show. Okay, go ahead. Well anyhow, uh, we do have a shout out. We want to shout out to Bill Schafer. He commented on the Scott Cochrane, um, article that we posted in Scott’s comments and the, you know, just to give you an idea of the flavor and the interesting inputs we get controlled transits that I’ve read Scott Cochrane’s article on automated buildings. I’ve been involved in a couple of projects with temporary networks were necessary. So I found Stanford solution. Interesting. Your article left me with a couple of questions and thoughts about using Ip controllers versus MSTP controllers and how vendors in it departments handle them. And so we have, uh, an opportunity for we forward that to Scott for a response, but we invite all our control trans community to please, these are the kinds of conversations and dialogues we’d love to have because everybody benefits from it. You might get your own little answer. Uh, you know, you might get your own private answer or young interest answer, uh, responded to, but we all benefit from it. And then last but not least, I want to compliment Eric Strom quest, who’s the most hardest working creative, innovative social media guy out there? Eric, he put up four youtube videos. Tell us, tell us about each one real quick. One minute or less on each one of them.

Eric Stromquist: Why? Can’t really remember all. But as we said on the show last week, we get content up quicker on the youtube channel. So Brent, I don’t know about you, but you know how long, a lot from youtube. So we get a lot of questions. Like, for example, we have one on, what’s the difference between two way and three way valves, which a ghuy like you knows , but we created a video for that. Uh, and so we are going to be putting more and more HVAC TECH TRAING VIDEOS on our YOUTUBE CHANNEL. Youtube content up here. So please subscribe to the channel.

ControlTalk Now The Smart Buildings Podcast Episode 307

Our Guest this week is Scott Cochrane !

Show Notes:

** Please note a machine transcribed this for us, it is not always accurate, and its grammar is worse than Eric’s.

Eric Stromquist: 00:00:04 Hi, welcome to ControlTalk Now your Smart Buildings, videocast and podcast for the week ending March 17th, 2019.  This is episode 307, where we talk about all things HVAC and Smart Building Controls and what would the conversation be without my co host and yours : The man, the myth, the legend, that guy over there, the one the only Kenny Smyers the  controls man from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Man, I understand you’ve been out sunbathing in the snow again, Kenny welcome to the show.

Ken Smyers: 00:00:36 . Well, nature gave us a little tease on Spring.  Two days ago it was 70 degrees, yesterday it was about 55, and today it was starting the morning off at 25 and snow flurries.

Eric Stromquist: 00:00:46 I used to date some women like that or 25 now the funny thing is that there’s people

Ken Smyers: 00:00:57 I know at golf as as, as I watch the snow fall here, I wonder if they really truly teed off. Are they? I know me. I

Eric Stromquist: 00:01:05 point a low golf my day, but never in the snow. Now when you play golf on the snow, did you use like different card golf balls or how would you find a golf ball in the snow?

Ken Smyers: 00:01:15 I never played in one either. But there’s a couple of things they do, they use different, there’s a ball that you can buy that you can track. Now I’m on it with an APP I think. Really? Yeah. But uh, I don’t know if they use those, but like at night thing I’ve seen them actually have, you know, the drill a hole through the middle of the ball and he put a light thing in there and you hit a ball that has a light on it so you can watch the ball and find it in darkness. I think the only time in this inclement weather, yeah, you probably use a orange ball or whatever. Some of them have an orange ball tournament said I don’t, I don’t, I’ve never played in the snow, so I can’t honestly tell you that I know because I have a, I’m adverse to anything. It’s cold .

Eric Stromquist: 00:01:56 Well, of course the big news is Kenny and I were down in Orlando last weekend. We secured the venue for the 2019, which I should be in 2020 ControlTrends Awards, . And we also secured the venue to have the biggest Superbowl party you’ve ever been to, which if you’re in Orlando for HR, that Sunday night, you can come to the ControlTrends Awards. We’re going to start about two and a half hours earlier, so that by kickoff through awards will be done. You’ll be situated, you should be in a great mood because we’re going to feed you well. We’re going to make sure you have drinks you need. You’re going to be with your rowdiest friends and you’re going to get to enjoy the Superbowl. So it is going to be the coolest, uh, ControlTrends Awards yet, uh, for our sponsors out there. Some of that Ken and I mentioned on the show last week, we have some special, so maybe you’ve already met, reached out to take advantage of those. If you haven’t reached out to the man, the myth, the legend, the one, the only Kenny Smyres at

Ken Smyers: 00:02:58

Eric Stromquist: 00:03:05 So Kenny, I mean, I’m still giddy over seeing BB King’s and what we’re going to end and what we’re going to accomplish at this year’s ControlTrends Awards., do you get any thoughts or feelings?

Ken Smyers: 00:03:15 Oh, I’m the same way. You know, I love football and Kevin, let me just say this, we’ve got a facility down there, a venue that is a, it’s up on the second floor. So you get this, this, uh, this feeling like you’re going up to see, you know, it’s just a very beautiful venue. It has an outdoor capabilities. So we’re going to be working with different sponsors for different capabilities and look inside, like you said, first we’ll have this really nice stage set up for a controlled trans awards, but then we’re going to transition. We have to 70 inch screens coming on side by side. We’ll have the main TV’s that they’ve got 20 some TV’s, you know, distributed throughout the, um, or I don’t know how many, I don’t remember exactly. It might be, it might be 12 but every, every seat has a view of a television and we’ll have additional screen set up. So it’s going to be a lively Superbowl party. I mean, I know, I’ll be excited. We’ll transition from a controlled terms award and go directly into the Superbowl. And that’s like a double banger. That’s a, that’s a two, two for one. And you’re right. So what we’re going to have to do is organize this thing through sponsors. Again, there’ll be a limited number of places available and we hope, of course we’re going to sell out, but we don’t want to send anybody away that wanted to come.

Eric Stromquist: 00:04:28 And when you say second floor, he’s talking about the BB King’s was actually on the second floor of one of those big, uh, uh, sort of, uh, complexes down in Orlando. And they’re actually two stories in BB King’s which will have both those stories. Plus there’s gonna be a lot of areas that if you want to have a, uh, an additional event in conjunction with the ControlTrends Awards you can do that. So it’s going to be great. Uh, it is kind of limited about 300 people. So it’d be first come first serve. So it can it be a response or get in on it. If you want to come to the wards, reach out to your sponsors if you don’t know who they are, look on our website cause those are the people that sponsored last year and it’s kind of rock and roll Kenny. So, um, I said, so with that, we know we’ve got a great guests coming up here in a few minutes, but let’s, let’s get to a couple of things, Kenny. First and foremost, how about some shout outs buddy?

Ken Smyers: 00:05:22 Well I’d like to give is to Anish PK from, he’s a senior consultant with Iot for buildings. And this was on a linkedin post that Annish reached out to us and said, hey, uh, he’s an iot expert. And he was really excited about, you know, capturing how Iot has really changed our last seven to 10 years has really changed our world. It’s gaining momentum every day. Major players, Microsoft as your Google Cloud, Ibm Watson, Amazon, AWS, the huge investments in their continued technology and product releases are influencing it. So first he talks the financial world, you talks about transportation, he talks about retail energy utility where it’s providing, you know, dynamic pricing for binding sound. But then he comes down into coming into the building space.

Ken Smyers : 00:06:15 And so this is a great article. It’s on linkedin again, p PK. Uh, so that was our big shout out. And then we’ve got a national, um, let me just transitioning to one of the shows. That’s coming up. The NFMT that’s coming to Baltimore. Uh, we want to talk about this one first because it’s up on the agenda. It’s coming to Baltimore, March 26th through 28th, uh, in Baltimore Convention Center. Of course Baltimore, Maryland. But this is a, you know, these, these guys are some of the stalwarts in our industry that, so you think about the facility managers, every single facility you drive driving down the road or you’re going into a building, somebody has got to be the throat to choke and, and take care of things, take care of the good things and the bad things.

Ken Smyers: 00:07:04 And I’ve just really proud of them being part of our industry, but this is where they go down and get your continuing education units. The CEU’s are so vital to get your recertifications year in, year out. I always regret the fact that I lost one of my certifications for the American Society of industrial security cause I just couldn’t go, couldn’t get my eight units you use every, every so many years, every two years I think. But anyhow, the uh, so hats off to these guys. They’ve got a great show. We have a link on there.

Ken Smyers: 00:07:46 All right, so the, yeah, we have a URL link there and you can register directly from our website.

Eric Stromquist: 00:07:51 Right. And so Kenny is kind of exciting. We are a change the way we roll a little bit here at we continue to get all the great posts that, that you always get on, w hat we realized is we have so much more content that we can do post on um, ccan post on . And we’ve been putting a lot of those up on youtube. So I we’re going to put a link, and encourage you to subscribe to the Youtube Channel. You might say, why would you do that? Well, like I said, I’ll, we can put a lot more content up on youtube then we can’t on the control trends site, we have a lot more content up there in terms of video foo tage. So you can get that. You’d be one of the first guys. Firstly you go on the first people to know because the youtube stuff comes out quicker than the stuff. So that’s number one. And as part of that, Kenny has, uh, created a new segment. There’s going to be on the youtube channel every Wednesday. So Kenny, tell him about, tell him about your new segment.

Ken Smyers: 00:08:46 It is a midweek update, Eric, and it’s, it’s, you know, there’s so much going on that we realized if we wait till the end of the week, we can be slowing down the digestion of, of all these events. So to get, you know, to keep the pace of all the events. We had five announcements of five different events in five different parts of the country and, and uh, they’re exciting. Uh, and some of them they were losing the opportunity to get the early bird rates and that’s significant and you know, uh, so the further out you get, and then we had one person comment about wanting to get his event on the calendar, the corporate calendar, in other words, when you can be out of the office for a week or a couple of days, you know, uh, you got to make sure that you not stepping on anybody’s toes and that there’s availability. So, uh, he said that he was glad that we had brought that to his attention so he could go and make sure he had that time off or whatever. And so it’s just a good thing. It’s a pulse and it’s an easier thing so that we don’t wait till the end of the week and then stack it up. We just kind of getting the weekly update.

Eric Stromquist: 00:09:46 It’s kind of like a combination to Ken’s calendar. I mean, if there’s something you need to know about via cybersecurity or something like that, I mean it just gives us the ability to impact you immediately in the way you’re going to get that. Please subscribe to our You Tube channel. There’s a link below in the show notes. Just hit the button, subscribe, we’d appreciate it and Kenny is going to do a great job with that. He dropped episode one last Wednesday. Got a great response. So Kenny, thanks for doing this for the industry. Be sure to check it out and talk about somebody that does some great stuff for the HVAC and Smart Building Controls Industry, let’s bring on our guest..

Ken Smyers: 00:10:20 Oh, we got a, we got a great guest today, Eric. We have Scott Cochrane, president and CEO of Cochrane supply in engineering. Cochrane supply’s a leading uh, industrial iot and building control supplier with locations throughout Michigan, Ohio, Kentucky and Scott is probably one of the foremost stalwarts of our industry. He’s taken a distribution into its new future. Uh, several times. Scott has been, you know, one of the cutting edge players that’s kind of leading the ways. Pulled up the torch and run first.

Eric Stromquist: 00:10:46 So the hang on, hang out with Scott. Don’t come on yet. Kenny. You didn’t give him a good introduction. Okay. It was okay. But I think the way we some Scott up is Scott is the Steve jobs of our industry. Welcome, Stevie Scott Cochran.

Scott Cochrane: 00:11:00 Anything. Okay. That’s a lot. That’s a lot to carry there. Yeah.

Eric Stromquist: 00:11:06 Well Dude, you’ve been doing it for a while and for, you know, anybody who’s been under a rock for the last 10 years, Scott and a gentleman, by the name of Brian Turner, ControlCo, have sort of reinvented what the distributor looks like in this new age we’re at, they uh, it just changed the game and it’s kind of like, I love it dude. Cause just like you march to the beat of your own drummer, you’ve been a pioneering, uh, you know, and sort of blazing the path for the rest of us. You’re making HVAC Controls distributors cool. Again, you’re making them relevant. So, uh, talk about that if you will. So, maybe before we get into some other stuff, talk about your thought process and sort of, uh, when you got into the business, did you just sort of look around and go, this isn’t the way it should be? Or how did you sort of get on this path brother?

Scott Cochrane: 00:11:50 Uh, well that’s a good question. Um,

Scott Cochrane: 00:11:55 and we didn’t talk about this before you throw it, you already threw a curve ball at me, but that’s okay

Eric Stromquist: 00:12:00 cause I’m not too old to have a fast ball anymore . L

Scott Cochrane: 00:12:03 ike the lucky, like the Impromtu. So, but anyways, um, we’re, we’re, I feel like I’m on what I enjoy about this industry the most is the challenge of bringing what I think is, is the technology into the space. Um, there’s this, you know, with contracting and with, you know, with building big buildings, there’s, there’s some concrete business practices that are really hard to change. And with technology, um, it’s a, it’s a real challenge to make that happen. And I really enjoy that challenge both with, you know, the community that I serve in terms of the, you know, the people who put the stuff in the big buildings. And then also the, uh, the vendors I work with whom make the products for the buildings and trying to, you know, trying to really become a bridge for the two of them.

Scott Cochrane: 00:12:54 Kind of like, like almost like translate to each other what each other wants, you know, and, and how to work together better because, um, cause what we don’t see in big buildings today is enough to, you know, quality technology. I mean, you know, the stuff you can put in your homes just dwarfs what you can do in a big building. And a lot of ways, especially if you look at it from a monetary standpoint. And I just liked this challenge of trying to make this happen in the big buildings. They think it’s an awesome time for all of us. And, uh, we can redefine a lot of what our value is, you know, in the next couple of years.

Eric Stromquist: 00:13:27 So, so Scott, maybe kind of a silly question, but you know, I think you’re absolutely correct. You know, the stuff in the home just works. Why hasn’t that translated to the buildings yet?

Scott Cochrane: 00:13:37 Well, I believe that in the buildings there’s a couple of hindrances. Um, number one, um, you know, you know, the, the, when we work on projects with the big buildings, one of the questions I asked myself these days is who are we really working for? Um, traditionally we’ve been kind of pigeon holed in this energy efficiency bubble if you may. And we’re working for saving energy is sort of the primary payback to the projects that we’re looking at doing. Um, but all of a sudden with new technology like indoor positioning systems and, uh, you know, connecting lighting and mechanical bas systems together, um, we’re starting to create business efficiency and business efficiency saves, saves the business energy. And, and not, not like energy in terms of utilities, but now we’re talking time all the time. It takes somebody to do something in a business. And you know, if business has a greater expense in its people than it doesn’t, it’s energy spend.

Scott Cochrane: 00:14:37 So we’re starting to see paybacks in terms of business efficiency that we can bring. Um, and then, you know, then there’s also this new, this new thing you’re seeing in the homes, which is kind of the cool factor, which is the appeal of the technology. And when we look at the appeal to this stuff in the homes, I think where we’re at is it’s, it’s really coming down to the fact that, um, the homes can actually understand the person within it better than the building can. So, so like the home knows your personal set point for your comfort. Your, your home system can know when you’re home or not. Your home system, you know, will know things about you that you don’t have to tell it and it can make your experience better in your home automatically, right. Without having to hit more buttons without having to control more stuff.

Scott Cochrane: 00:15:24 Right. That’s the Iot part, right? Is trying to get this stuff to where it’s automatic. And the people don’t have to do anything. So. So that’s really a question to the manufacturers because the way the homes do it is they put an app on a mobile device and connect it to the application. And what the APP does is it minds the data of the individual and it feeds it back to the application. So it will know things like if they’re home or not. Um, that data comes from their mobile device right through the APP. So, so the question is, you know, under the vendors it’s kind of like, where’s the APP? Like where, how come we don’t have more apps for these products that we’re putting in the buildings today to kind of create that, that relationship with the people that are within the spaces. Right. So,

Ken Smyers: 00:16:08 well, so that’s a great summary. Uh, in fact, taking notes too, because we were doing a couple of deep dives, we call him into, you know, not just the flux and the bas industry three, but the players are changing. Now, you had mentioned a offline that not only that the products are changing to bring these iot capabilities and apps into the building space. I really liked that quote about bringing technology into the space so the products are changing, the players are changing. And that’s where I was going to bring my next question into, uh, the concept of the players again and he should pigeon holed about energy has also a very, uh, you know, I like that comment too because you’re right, when we start our presentations off we go to this routine, you know, they’re most familiar with. And then we started going off to the side digressing into, like you were saying, he’s a create business efficiencies, but to get there is what’s Kinda the headwind for a lot of people and certainly an area by area. So the concept of a contractor, uh, you know, what has changed there to allow some of the things that you’re, you’re, you’re new technology into the space. The players change. But is it new players? There’s the contractors that are existent, evolving and becoming better at what they’re doing and understanding it’s getting on that same vibe.

Scott Cochrane: 00:17:24 Right. So, um, great question in. Yeah. So we’re, we’re seeing a mix between, you know, both the, you know, the, I’ll say the operators of the buildings are changing first and foremost. So the operators who are changing, the people whom we used to work with in terms of what we considered maintenance are changing over to much more like building engineers with it backgrounds is where I, you know, uh, you know, and, and yeah, as you guys know with controls kind of coming up in May, I, we’re super excited. We’ve brought in some fairly large and users who are deploying large scale pas and other systems at scale. And you’ll notice that they’re there. The staffing for those, how they staff their teams have completely changed. I mean, you’ll listen to, I mean their staffing, um, more it people than ever into the building side as operators.

Scott Cochrane: 00:18:24 So that’s first and foremost, right. And then secondarily, the contractors. Um, so obviously we’ve been working hard on helping push the MSI as a business concept and that helps contractors, um, pretty much told the story to the end user of what they can provide in terms of, uh, of an integrated system than what the value of that could be. So, um, and that business practice is becoming widely accepted amongst many contractors. Uh, we see contractors integrating now multiple mechanical systems together and almost every project, um, I numerous projects, we’ll see them integrating a life safety, security, uh, lifting devices. Uh, you know, you name it, they’ll tie into it. If it’s got a maintenance interface and they want to aggregate the alarms that they want to put them all on the same interface, you know, um, these contractors are not scared to do that. They’ll, they’ll take that on.

Scott Cochrane: 00:19:21 And, uh, and so there’s, you know, with that, those contractors are becoming much more network savvy. They’re hiring more people from it, managed service companies to help deploy, um, in all sorts of areas. Not just like, you know, installers. I mean, they’re hiring database people, coders, people like that. So you know, see you’re seeing this change in the staffing for sure. And then also like I said, that the business of contracting and then the end users are changing and becoming much more it savvy and able to just basically take these systems and self manage them going forward. I mean

Eric Stromquist: 00:20:00 you almost have to Scott with, the whole cyber security threats, they’ll potential liabilities they have. I want to stay on this track but I want to support it a frame around it for those of our audience who don’t know, who Ken Sinclair at is, , just he’s just kid that started this thing cause we call me kid,. Scotty, you’ve been doing a series of articles for Ken . I sorta want to use a talking point and I think you know one of the things is hauling automated but you’ve done is what is the master systems integrator of today look like. And I think you probably hit on some already, but let’s zero in specifically on the master systems integrator and some of the things so they can get, if they read that article and some of those articles.

Scott Cochrane: 00:20:44 Well, I think we’ve, we’ve definitely proven it that it’s, you know, this, this is, uh, you know, I think what these articles, what we were trying to prove was a case in point that this exists. So, so for any of the naysayers that say that this is not a business, this is a business, it’s real. Um, you can rename it if you want. I, I didn’t name it by the way, just so I don’t, I’m not taking credit. I am not Mr Msi. It was actually, it started with the echelon days is how far back that when if you do the history. Um, but um, but anyways, the concept though is real. Um, it’s a business concept and it’s adopted by many in many different ways now. And, um, um, so, so I think that’s here. It’s here to stay and, uh, as we continue to write the articles, what we’re trying to show now is some of the evolution you’re seeing from when we `started doing them to where they are today.

Scott Cochrane: 00:21:38 Um, if, uh, our next article, I’m not sure if it’s out this month or if it’s next month, but, uh, we, we interviewed Sam Hidad, um, a contractor from the Cleveland area that I’ve worked with for at least a decade plus. Um, a guy who a is just always had an outstanding reputation for high quality work in the Cleveland area for sure. And, um, you know, he kinda got dragged into an MSI situation and, um, with, uh, and, and to listen to his, you know, as you, if you read this article, what you’ll listen is the quality at which he’s looking at the MSI system and, and what he’s doing to make it even better than the others, um, is, uh, is a testament to the fact that the, the business process itself is starting to be optimized, if you may. So we’re seeing a lot of that happening.

Eric Stromquist: 00:22:27 All right. Let me, let me put you on the spot real quick here. For our HVAC and Smart Building Controls Master Systems integrators are integrators out there who think they are master systems integrator. Let’s play a little game called Scott Cochrane is going to ask you some questions so you can determine whether you really are a HVAC and Smart Building Controls Master System. Intergrator of not

Eric Stromquist: 00:22:44 The first question is what if you, if you are a master system, if you think your master system from greater do you, what’s the first question?

Scott Cochrane: 00:22:53 Do you, do you integrate systems? Do you integrate? Do you, are you able to integrate systems together? Can you bring, if I give you two different systems and two different software platforms, can you bring them together in one way for me? Can yon?

Eric Stromquist: 00:23:10 Perfect question one. What’s question two?

Scott Cochrane: 00:23:13 Question two is is can those two systems be from two different vendors? Can they be, you know what I mean? Great question. Can One be old? Can One be new? Can, can you do that? Can you, can you bring the old and new together?

Scott Cochrane: 00:23:30 Third question three is can you put it on my it platform that I have to have all this stuff on? Can you figure that out for me? Can you, can you come in and walk in to me as an end user and walk me through the process to cyber securely, put it on my network or put it on the Internet

Scott Cochrane: 00:23:46 properly so that I can utilize the technology better. Can you do that? Right. Perfect. I mean these are really the, these are the stomach things that we have to be able to do now as a, if you’re a contractor in this industry and you know, if you can say yes to those and you know, you’re gonna, you know, that’s where we talk about, you know, the future is not,

Ken Smyers : 00:24:07 I just wanted to name drop a couple of, first of all the, uh, the article from March on Msi automated buildings is Daryl Driver.

Scott Cochrane: 00:24:18 Funny.

Ken Smyers : 00:24:18

Eric Stromquist: 00:24:18

Eric Stromquist: 00:25:54 I believe he, I think you do it every other year with the [inaudible] contract with the Tridium summit, right? So give the people the stable datum on that and let’s get some more people there because Ken and I are going to be there. We wouldn’t miss it.

Scott Cochrane: 00:26:07 You guys are and thank you guys for coming. And as you know, you guys are, I think you guys are going to be in the lobby doing interview

Eric Stromquist: 00:26:13 We are my man, because, because our claim to fame is our value add is we are the game show host, our button controls. So happy you guys will be there again. Um, and you guys your coverage. I was just watching it again from the last one. You know, it was so awesome. So again, I’m so happy you guys will be there. Yeah. And, and I am trying to use my national whatever celebrity status to bring what I feel are some of the most influential people I’ve met around the industry to this conference

Scott Cochrane: 00:26:44 to present some of the stuff they’ve shared with me, um, throughout the last year or two to um, inform everybody of what’s going on around them. Um, so, uh, you know, the, the day one, the keynote, it’s exciting. Um, as you guys know, it will be a circus like atmosphere. I hope planning on doing, we’re planning on trying to do a demo, which we will be piloting live in front of the audience again. And with that we’ll be, we will be integrating potentially crossing some technologies in the face of the vendors that are attending without their knowledge ahead of time, which will be interesting as well. So, so of course we’ll create some controversy hopefully. Um, and then, uh, but the keynotes really are going to come, you know, I have, you know, I have, um, I have three really important people I think to the industry that are coming, um, in terms of the vendors, um, you know, um, with Laurentl, James, um, and um, Kevin from Tridium.

Scott Cochrane: 00:27:50 So those three are going to represent those, those companies, Johnson controls, acuity and Honeywell. And we’re going to get a good perspective of where those companies are. Where they’re headed is companies, these are the people who really direct the direction of the company. So it’s going to kind of cut becoming from the horse’s mouth, which we’re excited about. And then, uh, to help put a frame around it. Of course, I invited Ken Sinclair, whom I’ve kind of dubbed as is my, uh, my sounding board for the industry now. He, uh, um, to me, he, you know, I’ve been reading like you guys probably, you know, this is almost two decades reading his material and that he’s brought such a perspective to it that I’m, none of us would ever think of. And uh, I just appreciate that. And so we’re so excited. His, he’s on that.

Scott Cochrane: 00:28:39 He’s participating. He’s not a big speaker. Like he doesn’t want to like have the stage for a long time, but um, but we’ll be doing a panel at the end and getting into it more with Ken. And then of course, uh, the guy who, you know, I’ll barely be able to keep from stealing the stage from me. Jim Young. He’s so excited. He’s got such a good story to tell. Uh, you know, I be kind, sounds like it’s going to be an incredible conference. I know we’re all going, you know, big Cochrane team will be there. Um, and uh, Jim’s just, you know, the stuff he’s put together for, I kind, he’s going to kind of mini summarize it for our crowd. It’s going to be awesome. So all that cool stuff he’s doing a is going to be a, he’s going to hit on and uh, and then, um, yeah, we’re going to, so we’ll round that out.

Scott Cochrane: 00:29:25 And of course after that we’ll hit the, you know, we have a nice dinner planned and the big vendors show, all our vendor tables are sold out. We have, we have probably 10 new vendors that nobody’s ever seen before coming in with some products that nobody’s ever heard of. So we’re excited about kind of spotlighting some news and, uh, and then day two, yeah, we’re going to have that tech track and the it guys are just going to dive into it and a, again, that’ll be the highest attended one of the sessions. Um, and we have the, all the product experts from Tridium coming in with some of our it experts and some special guests and, uh, they’re going to be highlighting all sorts of cool stuff. And then, uh, on the business track again, I brought a whole, a neat group of end users who not only have these huge deployments, but they also have this incredible, um, they all have great stories, great stories to tell, which I think will be eye opening for a lot of people to understand where these companies are at and what they’re really doing.

New Speaker: 00:30:21 So Scott, it is May 2rd through the 6th, are there still places for people to come to it or is it sold out already? Uh, no, we, we are still accepting registrations. Um, have definitely eclipsed our attendance from the prior one. So we’re, you know, we’re going to be bigger than the last one already. So now, now as the game show host of the industry, Scott is time for us to play a little game. We like to call, call, let’s make a deal. All right, so Scotty, anybody out there who’s listening and wants to attend your conference? Yeah, we’ll, we’ll put the link in the show notes, but if they’re wanting to put it in, let’s give them a code like Ken and Ericsson as her control trends or whatever. What are you going to give them if they sign up with our code? Oh Wow. You’re going to make me do this on the spot behind door number one. We have, Ooh, well you’re thinking about that. Let me just review some of the highlights. Scott. Kim, by the way, I just wanted to give you guys a compliment. I, I’ve watched your, uh, your blooper youtube that the is the mightiest warrior becomes fear fearful in front of the microphone and camera,

Ken Smyers: 00:31:30 uh, and you get to see some of these great guys and Women. And also you’re doing something really special. I think we need to talk about the real quick or mainstream is it, you’re doing an incredible one on one opportunity with Tridium, Honeywell and distech and, and you actually have an invitation out there. If somebody has a personal, uh, questioned, asked that you’re going to have an opportunity to set them up one on one to do, to facilitate, you know, some of the things.

Scott Cochrane: 00:31:55 So I know we’re doing as our vendors, we really appreciate, uh, you know, they really are the sponsors of this, right. I mean we, we, we, we charge for it but we’re really just covering costs there. Cause the vendors really paid for the bill on this end. We appreciate that and with that we want them to get the most out of it. So, so we’ve, uh, they each have conference rooms that they can schedule private meetings with, um, just her with individual customers and really highlight their products individually. Um, I find that it’s a great way for them to, you know, really highlight their products and, and um, and it also means that they won’t all be pissed off at me at the end cause they all watched each other, present each other’s products. You know,

Ken Smyers: 00:32:38 I want to mention too that you got some, like you were

Ken Smyers: 00:32:40 saying about the, uh, the, the technical people. James Johnson is going to be there from trading on Kevin Williams and of course he’s going to be available, is going to be a keynote speaker, but he also is the resident expert on cyber security. That I’m sure it can handle a, any questions brought up, uh, Kevin, uh, marriage jack from the Iot. Yeah. Yes. Tridium analytics on fire. He’s doing some really need analytics there with us. With him. Yeah. So life cycles, the name of that.

Eric Stromquist: 00:33:10 Right. And did we mention that Ken and Eric are going to be there too. So Scott Kenny’s giving you some time to think about that. So let’s get back to the segment of the show is my favorite card. Let’s see if we can, could say, let’s make a deal, come on Scott. You’re the man. What are we going to get my habit

Scott Cochrane: 00:33:25 ana, by such and such? Well, I, here’s what I’ll do for you guys,

Scott Cochrane: 00:33:29 for your listeners. Okay. I will, I will. Uh, I have to, oh, I’ll set up a discount code. If they put contro ltrends as a discount code, we’ll take 10% off the register. So how’s that sound? Negotiate a logo here. Okay. Now I have, I have something maybe better, maybe worse under the box next to me. Oh, okay, perfect. Give her a box. Your name, which I told you, or option B in this box right here. Okay. So what’s it going to be? All right. Our community. You can choose box a or box B, but you have to wait. You get to Detroit to choose box be right? Yeah, yeah, no, I’ll give you a sneak peek ready. Okay. Okay. Oh No. Okay. So what, what’s the, what’s the code? What’s the code? My control fence. He said controlled trends. Eric controlled trends. That’s it sounds like a deal, right? I’m going to put that in our listeners. We will, we will put it, we’ll put a link 10 percent discount. That’s to make it happen on the website. I’m in big trouble, but we’re, well, hey, there won’t be the first time. Right.

Eric Stromquist: 00:34:38 You know, you know the, the thing you know about, well I love about Scott is it, you know, your people try to keep you away from us because we put you in these situations and they just, they’re always trying to come. Well I told her, I said you can turn it in. I mean yeah, we’ve got approval to do this. So Nice. Nice. Well excellent. Excellent. Well Scott, let’s talk, let’s cycle back around to apps a little bit cause it don’t last. Control con and I think maybe you’re the only a distributor. I know maybe since then somebody has, but you guys created a really cool app, works great and you do your credit, you guys demoed it live on stage. It’s not like you guys even had a safety net talk. Talk to our community about your app and how that’s important or why it’s important, what it does and how they can get it.

Scott Cochrane : 00:35:22 Okay. So our apps called Raven and what it allows you to do is to take building event information from the Niagara Framework and turn it into a push notification for a mobile device.

Scott Cochrane: 00:35:36 So Raven is the APP, you get it on the APP stores and uh, it works with a Niagara Connection into a building. And, uh, and with that, um, you know, you can control your, basically control your notifications, how you want to get them through the APP. So a, you know, you can mute them or turn them off the apple, log them separately so you can kind of get your building notifications in one place. And then you can also do it based on proximity. So if you’re, if you’re in the building, you get the notifications or if you leave the building, you stop getting them. So, you know, because the building isn’t like you go there for the night or you want to know about it. If you’re not there, if you leave the building, you usually don’t care about it unless you live there. So stop getting them if you walk away. So we built those settings in and uh, yeah, it’s going great. It’s being deployed primarily with people with critical interests. I mean, you know, when you, you know, data center people, um, industrial, we’ve seen some acceptance there. You know, when you have a critical environment dense, it’s a better, it’s a quicker way of making somebody aware of a situation. Well not only that, admit it, best value to it, but go ahead.

Eric Stromquist: 00:36:46 But the other thing too, Scott, that I thought was really cool about it was, you know, something, people get somebody alarms, they just become null and void to him. Right. And, and I felt like me and emails is I get too many emails from me too, so I just don’t look at any of them. Right. And I think that’s part of what goes on as he system spit out these alarms over and over and over. And this allows you to sort of configure them and get them on your time schedule when you want to more likely to respond to them. Is that fair statement?

Scott Cochrane: 00:37:13 It is. It is for sure. It definitely gives you a better way of parsing it. And again, having the APP allows the notifications to connect to the individual in a new way. Like I mentioned, um, the ability to know if they’re in the building or not is based on the location services. And their mobile device. So we actually, uh, we actually harvest that information and use it as a, as a convenience way for them not to have to be bothered when they leave the building. Right? Right. That’s something that happens automatically. So that’s a little iot example, right? Um, guys in the buildings today, there are a good zillion examples of these iot applications that can be built. And so that’s why I keep pressing on our vendors. Where’s the APP? Whereas like, yeah, well that’s, that’s a, that commercial where there’s the APP because I’m like, you got to have the APP to get the individual to capture their data. You have to have an APP right now unless until we get like wearables and stuff all figured out, like I guess watches could count, but you still, you put the APP on the watch, right? He’s still writing. Anyways, that’s a, so with a controls con, one of the things we’re hopefully going to do is to show you guys some new apps in terms of that. That’s nothing, nothing artificial involved in this is it? Like I said, we’ll be piloting some technology there. We have to actually have to build it like a censor wall and some other exciting stuff, which was not in the original controls can budget as they’ve told me like a thousand times already. But I’ve said we go forward, but budgets, your ultimate four letter word and people mentioned budget to you and you just kind of go, budgets, budget, let’s just come on, let’s blow the place out.Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That’s one of the things I love about you Scott. Steve Jobs, Cochran is it man, you never do anything halfway and it shows when you go to controls con man, it is, it’s one of the best, best things happening. So, uh, thank you.

Ken Smyers: 00:39:22 It’s an innovation that uh, again, it’s born out of, out of necessity. And I think you did it because you knew that you had a team that could support, uh, you know, the presentation of all this new technology. I mean, in other words, you dared to go out and create a summit that compared to the corporations, you know,

Scott Cochrane: 00:39:42 I mean I was inspired a lot by the Niagara Summit and what inspired me so much in the early days of the sun. That was the relationships I got around the country from those meetings. And you guys were with me. You guys remember how many people we meet, including, you know, the time I got to spend with you guys. And really that helps me more make decisions about my business than anything else is collaborating and just at a personal level, getting to know people in the industry and how they look at things and how they deal with things. Um, so you know, and I, and in terms of my customers, I want to give them that, you know, that’s something I want to provide to them as well. And so that’s why I felt controls con was important was to bring that also that, that ability of that community thing together on a semi regular basis. Get people used to it and then they see each other again and again and again and they generate relationships and well, I like it. Yeah,

Ken Smyers: 00:40:38 you’ve educated, I mean we got the collaboratory and the Ken Sinclair and Marc Petock, came up with a, I guess was a six years ago now because I did the annual fifth annual one, but I think that one of the things I’ve noticed in terms of trends in recent history is that it’s the fastest way that information gets disseminated. That is the fastest way to get the approval rates and to get the innovation shared amongst, you know, whole country at one time and one meeting is happening. So the whole old standard way though, the old school way of meat here, you know, every six months or a year, and then you go back to wherever you came from when you forget about it, where this, this new style of of of meet and greet and the networking and the summit sal of dissemination is so powerful that you can actually sense it. You can feel sometimes when these people get together and you see all these primary players from all these industries meet or from the contracting world. But he said with the distributors actually hitting head on with, with the right kind of forum and a lot of really neat things happened there. I mean, and you can it,

Scott Cochrane: 00:41:31 yeah, no it for sure. You know, don’t, don’t you guys don’t give me all the credit. You two have done a bit of damage yourselves. I mean, you guys said outstanding job of making all this knowledge, uh, accessible, archived. Um, and you guys, your fan base just keeps growing. It’s incredible to me. And uh, you know, you guys Brag about how I help redefine distribution. I mean, forget about it. I feel like I’m not worthy. I mean look at you like, ah,

Eric Stromquist: 00:42:03 thanks Scott. . The love of the industry of all time. I mean, this is like every industry needs a game show host. So, and Kenny and me, we got it down. So we are definitely the game shows, but there’s only because we know people like to they can, can make to make things happen. Dude, thank you for that. I want to shift gears another time how your most recent article on automated and if you don’t go to automated you’re really missing out. Missing out was kind of on OT versus Iot and you know, you talk about a visit out to the west coast. So tell our community about that.

Scott Cochrane: 00:42:38 So yeah, so oe of the things that were fast learning from studying the cyber security requirements of, you know, of industrial based systems, as you know, we kind of screwed up in the bas industry by putting all these systems on owners networks. We really are very vulnerable to, um, a lot of problems in the future. Um, and uh, with that, one of the new, you know, of course, and every manufacturer in the bas space now has a full IP offering. So we have a lot of customers preferring to put in, you know, flat architectures with all Ip controls. Um, and so with that, the calamity with the owners network is getting louder and louder. And so, um, one of the new rules of thumb that we’re deploying with these deployments is we’d like to lead with this concept of, you know, we believe is systems should be air gapped before it gets networked as a concept. In other words, if you’re building a bas system and it’s all Ip controls, you actually have to build your own IP network first to support that properly before you go onto another network. Now we’re not saying you’re not going to end up on the owner’s network, we’re just saying you can’t really deploy 400 Vav boxes on an owner’s network. That’s not even in the building, not to commit the owners. The owners networks might not be the owner’s networks because the owner might change. So what are you going to do then? Right? So you got 400 plus devices on their network. So what do you do when they leave? So stuff like that. So, so the new concept is to air gap that build up your own network and then decide how to connect it. And when you connected you firewall so that you add a level of security between you and the network infrastructure you’re touching. So anyway, so with that concept, I went out to one of our customers for a long time now, which is Stanford University in Palo Alto. And just kind of as an experience, I decided to tell the it group that supports their deployments that they need to air gap everything. And uh, the guys had just about blew off because basically he’s been working for the last 10 years to get it all on the network and all secured and all this other stuff. So, uh, it was a lively debate and, uh, we had, uh, we had a good talk about it and I, I wrote an article about it. It’s pretty cute. Um, it is, you had to eat, they did win the debate with me, so they are going to continue to put these deployments on their networks. But I will say that, you know, they, they’re, they’re, they’re top notch in terms of the testing documentation standards, you know, they, you know, they knock it out of the park on those. So, so their deployments are definitely, well done, . And if you may, but you’re still going to see more bas systems that will have to get air gapped hearing.

Eric Stromquist: 00:45:23 Well, no, completely agree. One of the things that I found fascinating cause part of the debate and I was tracking, I think it was live on CNN. Larry King I think was the one who was monitoring this, but one of your point, which I thought was very, very valid as we got new construction because all the bas stuff needs to be commissioned before the it structure gets put in. Yeah, I thought you had a hell of a point there, but they countered with what ?

Scott Cochrane : 00:45:50 you’re going to take the article away. Why wouldn’t anybody go read it if I tell you what

Eric Stromquist: 00:45:54 it is a good point man, see this is why. This is why you’re Steve jobs.

Scott Cochrane: 00:45:59 Got To go to the article, man, . I mean maybe I already gave away. No, no you didn’t. You didn’t give it away. You know what? That’s a great point Scott. Kenny will put a lively debate though and I think I did a good job of capturing it in the article and thank you again to Stanford for letting me publish it. I, I do think, again, this is part of the story. We have to start telling that, you know, yeah, we have to air gap everything, but a lot of things aren’t going to be air gapped. What do we do then? You know, they’re coming, they’re coming to a ControlsCon. Oh, absolutely. They are. Jerry is one of the panelists on our day too, and he’ll be talking about that and a lot of other, um, you know, it, he’s, he’s just got an incredible story about how they’d be bald as a department from according the building. So he’s going to tell that story, which is great. So very, very cool. Awesome. Awesome. Okay. What do you, what else do you have buddy? That was it. That was the only thing. Yeah, the talking points we had, but uh, I, I, I tell you what, now that show, now they show can begin.

Eric Stromquist: 00:47:00 I think people need to make an effort. I’m knocked the door with Chloe in it. Qualys. Scott’s uh, how old is calling a little dog? I got ’em locked in their bedroom. He ain’t here. That’s such a commitment to the industry. I mean you know how many people would lock their kids Saturday man. You know, Scott, I kind of want to cycle a couple of other things can be real quick. Cause while we got Scott, dude, you know we sort of have talked about, you know, the master systems integrators and sort of what they need to be able to do. I’d like to hit on two other sort of parts of the supply chain if you would. Uh, before we, we call it a day to day one is for the manufacturers. Cause I think a lot of them are struggling. Kenny and I’ve talked on the show in the past a little bit about the fact that it’s almost cool of you’re coming into this industry now, it don’t have legacy systems to support cause it’s almost easier to design a product for today. And I’d have to support the legacy. But what advice would you give the manufacturers? And the second part of the question is going to be, if you’re a distributor, there’s been around for awhile, how do you stay relevant in this tsunami of change that’s sort of coming at us?

Scott Cochrane: 00:48:12 Well you guys know I pounded the it drum for a long time in terms of incorporating, incorporating that into your business. And you know Eric, I didn’t mentioned in that to the distributors for many years now and you and I have talked offline about this. So we know, I mean that is still at the core is you have to have an it competence then the, the industry is becoming a cyborg industry. We are not all mechanical electrical anymore and we are a mix of it. And a, you have to have the right support around you in terms of that. And if you don’t, you’re going to have a hard time making the right decisions for your business on that every level. And you know, you talk about our vendors and I, I I feel like, you know, in terms of, you know, I know in terms of distribution, I haven’t seen as many people hire it. People as I would’ve liked to have seen. Right. Not Saying I’m like pissed but I am a little disappointed. Right. I would have thought more people would have taken, taken that on quicker in terms of, Oh real quick, cause I have hired one and I’ve hired one named Batman. His last name is Batman.

Eric Stromquist: 00:49:16 So Scott and for the Control Trenton Industry. Okay. I am looking for a second it professional. The only thing you to crack here, you have to be good and your name has to be Robin because will be the first HVAC and Smart Building controls distributor that will have Batman and Robin doing tech support. we have taken your advice and there’s a problem. Thank you for that.

Scott Cochrane: 00:49:36 But anyways, the vendors, the vendors, I give them the same advice. I mean like I can’t tell you how many times I’m with their product experts and none of them are it savvy if you may. None of them. Like no one in the room is, remember I don’t consider myself it savvy when I need 90 savvy person in the room, I bring my chief technology officer who moves very it savvy. Okay. Cause I’m not it savvy. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. But I can bring up and he can sit next to me and we can bring up a good value to you because we collaboratively can understand things that most people can’t. Right. So, so you know, that’s where, that’s where I see our vendors really struggling is how to incorporate this it community into their products, into their groups that work on products, into the engineering and the products. You know? How did they do that? You know, it seems like a lot of them are separating hardware and software. They should actually, I think be getting closer together in some ways. Yeah. They’re thinking in terms of it’s going to add cost because there’s the, they’re still thinking about price, right. Versus value. A lot of them because they go in it well that would be, I had more cost to the product. We need to keep the product is a inexpensive as possible. And that’s certainly one way to go, but I’m not sure that that’s going to be the winning formula going forward. It sounds like maybe you’re agreeing with that. Yeah, I do. I do. I think again, they need to really look at their staff and as they, as they add new staff, I would recommend they look at more people with true it backgrounds coming in.

Ken Smyers: 00:51:10 So that goes back to your original statement, where’s the APP? Whereas the APP exactly. Cause we can key person, they’d say, well to get that data you’d have to have an yeah, well how do I do it as well? You, yeah, it doesn’t hurt to have one around you. So, and then next thing you know, you invest a ton of money and next thing you know you’ve built an APP, you have got to make data, an APP, you’re like, wow, that’s expensive. But it is worthwhile. I’m not complaining it is worthwhile because it is. That is the industry in a nutshell. I believe in the future. And I think when we talk about distributors, we know Kenny, I’ve talked a lot on the show about the fact that distributors have the opportunity to become the most relevant part of the supply chain or they can become quit completely insignificant.

Eric Stromquist: 00:51:54 I don’t think there’s much middle ground there. So a couple things is that the manufacturers are not gonna provide that it savvy expertise and this obviously I’m not paying for the distributor to step up and differentiate themselves and create value with that. Right? So that, that, that’s a key piece there. And then the other thing is somebodies got to go sell it. Right? And you know what, what I’ve gleaned from this and other conversations with you as part of that sales process is you have to understand the owner’s point of view from an it perspective because the building automation controls, that’s going to have some influence. But if you don’t get the high t piece and if you don’t understand the fact that operational savings is going to be a bigger driver and 10 and experience is going to be a bigger driver and probably anything else, then you’re not going to be relevant in terms of the sales process. It, it, you’re just going to be, you know, working numbers up on bid day and hoping your price as well.

Scott Cochrane: 00:52:47 That’s exactly right. You got it. You got it. When we go, man, what a lot of, I find a lot of my job is in terms of where I sit because again, we’re, you know, we’re not selling projects, we’re just, you know, supporting deployments a lot of times in terms of our end user relationships. So in, in that regard, I mean we’re seeing all sorts of, uh, you know, new opportunities from these digital systems that go in because you know, the, the owners now are becoming very savvy about the technology they have and they are learning that this, the new business and using that to get more funding to get on, you know, to get better looks from their superior management on projects in terms of not low bid, but actually we need this technology because it is going to bring a lot of business value. Right. So, so now we’re seeing the layer that we sell into at the buildings. They’re starting to learn how to sell to their bosses and we’re starting to see more, more project fund money coming in. And I shouldn’t call it fun. It’s just exciting because you know, it gives us a chance to deploy this new task. Right? Yeah. So, so that part we’re seeing that change going on, which is really exciting. So what do you see the whole game sorta changing eventually with the whole construction process? Is that going to happen anytime soon? Where the consulting agent. Okay. Yeah. Think about that Yo pat and out from bad Rocky’s going to talk about that at our controls con and you’re going to see where they definitely have technology as one of the high, you know, in terms of decision making. It sits at the highest levels within their organization and those decisions are made and they’re made with uh, with budget considerations for sure. I mean they’re not just throwing money out, but uh, but when they’re made there, it’s going to happen that way. And I’m the technology providers on the job sites, they fall in line when told what to do with a good plan. Right. You know, a lot of times when they try to deploy new technology without a good plan at all levels, like get the engineer owner level as well as the contracting level. Um, you know, those oftentimes go over budget and the value’s not there to the end user. But if the owner has a design and they’d lead it and it comes from the top down, those are the projects where we see some real big successes coming in under budget with a huge value to the project. So that’s very encouraging. Yeah, it’s neat to see it coming together. So anyways, bedrock Joe is going to talk about that. We’re excited about that. So very cool. Cool. Yeah, we also have Mike Miato from Ford Motor and Mike is an awesome guy cause Mike Mike is, he’s actually like a guy in charge of it infrastructure for Ford and he lives in a world much, much bigger than what we’re talking about in terms of the it deployments. And uh, he’s had a dip his toe in the Bas world and look at some of the deployments were doing it and it’s going to give us his view from his level of what we’re doing and give us a sense of what’s going on around us in these huge it infrastructures. So, uh, so that’ll be an exciting, that’s a neat story as well. So lots of neat stories. Hopefully again, we’re going, we really want this to be educational. The controls, I think it’s going to be cool. So remember we have a link, there’s a special that you can get and we played, let’s make a deal earlier with Scott Cochran. Maybe just type in control trend and you need to know that you needed that in the next two weeks after two weeks. I have to do one more, one more thing here. Just sitting here listening to this. You know, I think that all

Ken Smyers: 00:56:24 the manufacturers should send representatives. I mean everybody in the control business, you have a lot of them already common and you have a lot of great sponsors and, and uh, and I’ve gone through them. It’s a very impressive lineup. But you know, I can’t see how people in this business don’t have a representative come to this thing. I think it really and truly would be behoove anybody that’s trying to keep up to date with all his fire. You know, uh, just there’s so much information coming at you. It’s a fire hose and you can’t really filter and whatever. But this filters at this brings the important issues and important people in the industry to one place for two days. How could you not really see the value in it? So I, I just, this is a call to all the folks who listen out there across the country. Make the investment, get to controls con and you’ll, we’ll be rewarded

Scott Cochrane: 00:57:07 for sure. Detriot Motor city and we’ll put the dates. We’ll put the link there. Listen, Scott, I’m getting a copy. No, it’ll all be mounted. Well, listen, I’m getting it. I’m getting a couple of texts from our live audience. Some questions. I’ve gotten three from three different, Jennifer’s about let’s play. Let’s play a deal. Just Jennifer Lopez, Lawrence and Aniston. They want to know if they sign up, whether it be photo ops available with Scott and then secondly, a guy named Walter Isaacson. I think he wrote a biography on Steve Jobs, one of the best ones ever. He wants to know if you have a book deal yet because it’s all there and more and more. There you go. I guess has been the one, the only Scott Cochran. Dude, thank you so much for taking time to be with us. Cochrane or Cochise always. Yeah, for sure. [inaudible] dot com we will have a link to the show.

Eric Stromquist: 00:58:03 Remember, use controltrendsand get 10% off. The Jennifer should be there and getting their photos taken with Scott. He usually has not to around him. So it sounds like maybe we already have beautiful women around you, so you’re even up in your game. So dude, I’m proud of you. Way to go. Thank you so much, Scott Cochrane.

Scott Cochrane: 00:58:19 Thank you guys. As always. Thank you from the industry and uh, see you next time. Kenny. Amazing stuff from Scott Cochran.

Eric Stromquist: 00:58:27 As always, man. Excited about control con. Be sure to register for it if you’re not already going. And remember it was, I could deal Kenny and I don’t negotiate on your behalf as the game show host to the industry. So Kenny, uh, you know another thing, we’re sort of changing up your a little bit. As you know, we used to sort of go through all the posts on control trends that were there for the week and we realize that you can just read those. They’re there. We don’t need to rehash every single post. So one of the changes we’re going to make on the show is we’re going to have a deep dive post to the week and we’ll take one post and we’ll go and do it. Go to a deeper dive on. So Kenny, what is the deep dive posts on the show this week?

Ken Smyers: 00:59:05 Well, it’s, um, the 2019 Haystack connect and project Haystack and, and a little bit more about the, uh, the networking of the sharing, the creating of synergies, the generating of business opportunities. But as we all know, Haystack tagging turns thousands of complex data points into efficient dashboards, meaningful alarms, and simple schedules. So what we’re seeing, Eric, is we’re seeing the implementation and the development of a protocol that’s going to make our worlds, uh, simpler, easier, faster, more efficient, and get to those, you know, those, those desired points without any deliberately meddlesome, uh, you know, traffic in other words. So if somebody comes out of a box and it’s 10, you know, it’s registered or it’s, it’s using Haystack or somebody could, it’s an APP and it says, hey, stack, we’re going to start seeing in the couple of years that will become probably the protocol of choice because it has so many merits.

Eric Stromquist: 01:00:04 Right? Was it, you know, and we were there at the very first meeting. We’ve been to every single Haystack convention and as, Kenny is saying , Haystack really is a tagging conventions are the agreed upon tagging convention and the stuff it allows you to do. It wasn’t that you couldn’t do it before, but there’s a term and, and if you’ve been called this, you know it’s not a derogatory term, but it was just sort of a reality called the link monkeys. And basically if you wanted to, to get data out, you basically had to manually go into your software to link different pieces of data up and pull them out. So it was very, very time consuming. And this sort of came about because people want to extract the data from their systems where they can make it usable. All right, but it was just cost prohibitive because it was not an agreed upon tagging conventions. So Kenny might call an air handler air handle, write it out to that one on my called, hey she one, Scott Menuch would probably call it drone one cause he’s a drone captain. But now with this convention, it’s kind of the best of all worlds because you can call it all those things, but then it’s going to translate to one meaning. And then now what allows your integrators to do is to extract this data without having to the cost of being a link you. So we’ve watched over the years when this first came out, our first meeting in Chattanooga, Tennessee, Kenny, I mean, you know, it was, it was kinda tough sledding there. Nobody really adopted it. But it’s such a great idea that the manufacturers, the biggest one be a Tridium. No, came out in the not too distant past and say, we, we are accepting this standard now. So it is really, and truly the stuff, if you are a user or a consulting engineer, you want to ask and make sure that Haystack tags are included in your controllers and your system. If you’re an integrator, you want to become part of the Haystack organization. If you’re in, you know, and if your distributor, you better know what it is too. And the great news is, if you’re not caught up on this yet, you will be, because there’s a big event coming up and San Diego, right? Kenny,

Ken Smyers: 01:02:08 all insurance. In fact, the registration, uh, it might be closing down. That was one of the, our midweek, uh, uh, urgencies was that these early bird registrations or, and I think a Haystack. You May, if you look at it today being Sunday, March 17th, they might, might, might have missed the, uh, the clothes off. But yeah, so the registration hotel, we have that link right on our website. And uh, you know, you could book your, to book your hotel room directly through the Haystack connect website for discounted conference rate. So that’s, that’s, that’s a good incentive. Uh, it gives you good details on the sponsors, the exhibit halls, the agendas, the speakers. In fact, there’s still a call for speakers for the Haystack connect. Uh, it’s in a beautiful area. It’s a private island paradise. So this is going to be a paradise point. The San Diego island resort and it’s extraordinary. It’s beautiful. Uh, it’s a, it’s going to be a, so all the downtime is going to be near the beach or you know, just in a beautiful environment. So it’s got all the components of being a very worthwhile important networking. But like you said, going into the deep dive, you know, the, the technical information that the Hastag provides a unique open forum for professionals involved in automation control Internet of things to learn, share the latest technologies and techniques for connecting systems and utilizing data device data and applications including intelligent buildings, energy management, remote monitoring and other iot devices and applications. And this year is competence of course is May 13th through the 15th at Paradise Point Resort. And I just want to do some name dropping. It got some of the industry’s stalwarts that we’ve had, like John Petze, mark p talk, Brian Frank, uh, you know, Scott meant, you mentioned him earlier and you know, Jason Briggs, we’re seeing the critical mass here and the OEMs that are involved are making this thing inevitable. So it’s not a question of if you’re going to get onto the project Haystack train or, or the Haystack templating. It’s not a question of if it’s a question of when and,

Eric Stromquist: 01:04:21 well, and we’ve seen so many great demonstrations. I, you know, it compliments to both Jason Briggs and Scott Menuch because the very first one we went to, they get out, they got up on stage and their overalls and their, their straw hats and they essentially live in front of an audience without a safety net connected all these diverse systems almost instantaneously through the use of Haystack tags. We saw him do it again in Colorado Springs. So the power of Haystack, I mean it’s palatable when you see how quickly they were able to bring on systems from all around the city and almost instantaneously. It’s phenomenal. I’m not doing it justice. You have to see it to believe it. As a matter of fact, I think uncontrolled trends, we might have some videos of them doing that. We do, we do. But the videos didn’t even do it justice. So if you haven’t been to a Haystack connect, uh, beg, steal, plead, tell him Ken and Eric sent you, you know, by Kenny said the dates might’ve passed, but hey, we know people, so just, uh, we’ll, we’ll help you out if you really want to go and you should want to go. So, yeah, well I’m just goes, Forrest Gump says, that’s what I have to say about that. Hat’s off to the Haystack connect organization. You know, we have the links on there, the, the Haystack connecting project Haystack. You know, you’ve got some brilliant people in behind that and thinking about Haystack too is it’s global, it’s having a big impact on Australia. It’s having a big impact. We heard from one of our colleagues, the reason why Australia has become such a leader in building automation and any, any new innovation that know can help buildings become more efficient and you know, increase the utilization of data Australia, you have to do it. They have laws down there that say, hey, guess what, we don’t, we’re not going to tolerate, it’s like a title 24 on steroids. It means I, I didn’t realize it until it was explained to me that, you know, they don’t even have a choice. You have to comply with these, these, the top energy efficiencies and everything are mandated. So they think that the Haystack is, you know, was, was pivotable deployment of a protocol that everybody benefits from so that everybody’s on the same sheet of music , What was the guy’s name that we met? We need to give him a shout out to from air masters that uh, has been, he’s a big, big deal at Haystack. Mcelhaney. special shout to Richard. He’ll probably be there too. But to your point, man, people from all over the globe come here to a that and then right after that you got to get back on your point, get your passport ready cause you got the EASY IO Global Conference in Holland. So we’ll be there too. So with that Kenny Smyres, we got stuff to do. You got to go play in the snow, get a snow Tan, and you know, I’ve got to go take care of my kids. My wife is out of town for 10 days, guys, so I am babysitting the six year old Evelyn and the three year old Axel, or should I say their babies city May. With that, a special thanks to our guest this week, Scott Cochrane from Cochrane Supply.. Be sure to subscribe to our youtube channel and remember, be bold, stay in control, and stay relevant

Ken Smyers: 01:07:48 indeed.

New Speaker: 01:07:48 Indeed. Kenny Smyers, and that’s a wrap.